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The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Not sure what your point is Bob. There are basically no female only tournaments in Canada apart from a few cycc sections, the Canadian women's closed and maybe one or two provincial equivalents.
To me, that looks like a lot of "women only" events. How many "men only" events do we have ?
But as long as FIDE supports separate systems, the weak national federations such as the CFC will continue to follow the herd. No matter how silly and corrupted FIDE might appear, most chess politicians are too unprincipled (please note how diplomatic I can be :)) to voice serious dissent. FIDE has a Word women championship so we need to have such national championships, even though we have probably less than a dozen active women players in Canada (girls don't count :)).
The youth vs older part leads me to interpret it as meaning no junior events. Once you are opposed to and want to do away with all gender segregated events then I don't see how you justify not doing away with age segregation as well. Why is age deserving of special events while gender is not?
Age is a temporary state and youth a decease that time cures easily. Youth events serves as milestones and preparation for adulthood in chess. But women events serve no such purpose. Women will remain women. Women's events just carry the idea that for some reason, women in chess are inferior to men, but nonetheless worthy of some special treatment as if permanently handicapped.
.... as long as FIDE supports separate systems, the weak national federations such as the CFC will continue to follow the herd. No matter how silly and corrupted FIDE might appear, most chess politicians are too unprincipled (please note how diplomatic I can be :)) to voice serious dissent. FIDE has a Word women championship so we need to have such national championships, even though we have probably less than a dozen active women players in Canada (girls don't count :)).
Hi Jean:
You have one CFC Governor who has now challenged the sacred cow!
Could Canada lead the way in reforming Women's Chess in the world?? Could Canada eliminate the women's chess system in Canada, and boycott all FIDE separate women/girls tournaments?
Would Canada encourage other national federations to do likewise, until we get enough national federations to come on board, that they can demand the parallel FIDE reform?
Where do other CFC governors stand on this issue?? Is there any momentum for change at the next 2103 Winter CFC Governors' On-line Meeting, if a motion was brought?
Bob A ( CFC GTCL/Ont. Governor )
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Wednesday, 7th November, 2012, 08:29 PM.
Is there someone out there defending the separate, parallel women's chess system after our at least half century experiment?? Is there someone claiming it has been successful? Is there someone arguing at least that it has been neutral and not harmful? If so, what is the basis of your position?
Bob A, TCN Editor
you are begging the question. All the justification that is necessary for women's tournaments to exist is that there are women who want to play in them. They do not need to be defended by claiming they do anything else other than provide opportunities to play chess.
Incidentally, by the same arguments, open events should also be cancelled. The number of open participants has declined substantially over the last 35 years despite all those efforts for chess championships, tournaments, etc. If your claim is that despite work put into tournaments, championships etc. does not result in stronger and more players, that is sufficient reason to talk of "abolishing" women's events, then you should also be talking about abolishing the national championship and the CFC altogether.
And for those who claim that a good reason for abandoning the women's Olympiad team is that they are not strong enough, consistency demands that those people also demand that we not send the National team as it is not strong enough either to be a plausible contender.
And for those who claim that a good reason for abandoning the women's Olympiad team is that they are not strong enough, consistency demands that those people also demand that we not send the National team as it is not strong enough either to be a plausible contender.
But which team was followed more closely? There are numerous threads here talking of the Open selection process, life at the olympiad, matches against top ranked teams such as Azerbaijan, and our newest GM. The Women's team only gets mentioned out of fairness. I only paid attention when Jackie Peng started turning in great individual results regardless of the team standing. I think it's very clear between the Open and Women's Olympiad teams which ones were there to compete.
Yet the fact remains that more than 1/2 their tournaments are girls only. Look at Yuanling Yuan's chess resume and I think you'll only find one girls tournament after the age of 10 (other than the 2 Olympiads of course).
Yuanling Yuan played in the girls event in all her CYCC experiences and chose to make the women's Olympiad her main focus event over the last 3 years. She taught an "all girls" chess class and supported the local all girl's chess event.
Trying to use her as an example of the value of avoiding female only events is absurd.
no, just Karpov, Korchnoi, Kamsky, Ivanchuk ......
Of course I was joking with Kerry. With Bob talking about the most successful woman player in history, or however he put it, we're comparing over the centuries. It's arguable at best.
Yuanling Yuan played in the girls event in all her CYCC experiences and chose to make the women's Olympiad her main focus event over the last 3 years. She taught an "all girls" chess class and supported the local all girl's chess event.
Trying to use her as an example of the value of avoiding female only events is absurd.
The CFC website seems to indicate otherwise. I don't see a single CYCC event after the age of 10.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Brilliant idea. Lets get rid of the few girls who are playing chess. We can really grow chess once all the distractions are removed.
We had nineteen people (eighteen kids and me) from Windsor and area playing in the Michigan International Chess Festival which featured half a dozen grandmasters and IM Irina Krush. We didn't quite have parity in numbers between boys and girls but it was quite close among the 18 children.
The main difference between the Windsor children's chess scene and the rest of Canada is that we manage to interest boys and girls in taking up chess in almost equal numbers. It is frankly quite stupid to begrudge girls an additional opportunity to play chess in a non-threatening environment. If you allow it the boys will chase the girls out - at least that's what I noticed in the beginners class.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Hi Vlad:
At the Scarborough CC we have no " junior club ". The juniors ( boys and girls ) compete in their appropriate rating sections ( in our case this is the U 1800 section and the U 1400 section; we used to have WIM Yuanling Yuan in the 1800+ section until she left the club, after winning the club championship ).
We have a number of girls playing in both the U 1800 and the U 1400, though they are still substantially outnumbered by the junior boys in those sections. We have no problem with the junior boys running the junior girls out of the club. As far as I can tell, the girls do not have a problem fully participating at the club, though I would say that generally the boys tend to not mix with the girls much. But they fully respect them, and especially over-the-board.
Our junior girls play well, and are all improving.
Why? Because they are playing in open sections, and playing the strongest opponents the pairing system can give them, adult female, adult male, junior boy or junior girl. They are spending their time playing the strongest opponents they can deserve. They are not playing weaker girl juniors to win some discounted prize.
Maybe some other SCC members have a different opinion - it would be good if you would join the debate.
And for those who claim that a good reason for abandoning the women's Olympiad team is that they are not strong enough, consistency demands that those people also demand that we not send the National team as it is not strong enough either to be a plausible contender.
That would sure save a lot of money. One of the things that is very motivating to me about the women's olympiad team is that we might someday place one or more of our Windsor girls on that team. If that ever happens, look out I could see Windsor chess taking off even more than it has.
Any strong women players from Toronto have boycotted it.
Are you sure? I don't think that you would use the same word for Toronto Closed which does not attract the (potentially) strongest Toronto field. The same thing about Canada Closed, Olympiad teams ;)
Are you sure? I don't think that you would use the same word for Toronto Closed which does not attract the (potentially) strongest Toronto field. The same thing about Canada Closed, Olympiad teams ;)
If " boycott " means an " active opposition to something ", then perhaps I have not used the correct word.
But my point is the same - the separate Toronto Women's Championship is accomplishing nothing for the advancement of women's chess in Toronto - the strongest Toronto women players have absolutely NO INTEREST in playing in it. So what is it supposed to be accomplishing?
GTCL couldn't even attract 8 women to play - it was intended to be an 8-player round robin, and they could only get 6 players. And of the 6, only 2 are women - the other 4 are all junior girls: http://annexchessclub.com/2012/10/2012-toronto-womens/ .
If this is a shining example of the success of the separate, parallel women's system in Canada, I think the system has to be declared on life-support. And I fully respect those who are playing in it and striving their best to win the title. As I've said elsewhere, it is the system that is here at fault, and failing women.
The CFC website seems to indicate otherwise. I don't see a single CYCC event after the age of 10.
And I know why. First couple of years they moved out of country, because they decided chess training would be better elsewhere. When they returned they decided the CYCC/WYCC event was unsuitable, not for gender reasons, but for financial reasons ( not good value in their opinion ).
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Wednesday, 7th November, 2012, 09:55 PM.
One of the things that is very motivating to me about the women's olympiad team is that we might someday place one or more of our Windsor girls on that team. If that ever happens, look out I could see Windsor chess taking off even more than it has.
I don't know which Olympiad you may be talking, Vlad, but I'll make a bold prediction and predict that Harmony Zhu, who'll be all of 8 at the time of the 2014 Olympiad in Norway, will have to get serious consideration for inclusion on the team. Imho, she'll be at least expert strength by that time.
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