If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
15. Have fun!
(Thanks to Nigel Hanrahan for writing these up!)
The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
The women should defeat me and win the open prize; and yes, I will do the best I can to win a class prize, among my rating peers. And that is the point - the prizes are by rating; should not be by gender - no need for separate women's prizes - it is detrimental to the development of women's chess.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Zeljko, you are probably one of the dumbest people here on chesstalk on the same level as other fellows like Andy Shaw. Have you read some of the crap you post on this topic?
Juniors do compete in the job market. If we take junior to mean the WYCC age criteria then plenty of them compete for part time jobs, babysitting jobs, and jobs after graduating from high school or after dropping out of high school. The government has special programs to try to help youth employment, which they categorize as anyone under 25.
WYCC age criteria = U18
Your criteria = U25
Therefore, you CANNOT use the same age group when making your point. Part time jobs at Starbucks or wherever and babysitting jobs are awesome for kids in highschool but I don't think anyone would hire a 30 year old to babysit their kids.
The youth vs older part leads me to interpret it as meaning no junior events. Once you are opposed to and want to do away with all gender segregated events then I don't see how you justify not doing away with age segregation as well. Why is age deserving of special events while gender is not?
I'm sure you were taught this in primary school but I see a refresher course might be in order... You see, when kids grow older, they become adults. When girls grow older, they become women. When women become older, they become older women. Women CANNOT become men just by growing older. In a non-physical intellectual activity, there is no reason why women will do worse than men. However, kids will often perform worse than adults because of their inexperience and the fact that their brains are not as fully developed. That is why there are IQ tests for age groups and no differentiation among men or women.
Perhaps women have the right to the same lack of talent as you do.
Women are just as talented as men, they just aren't being pushed and challenged enough. Look at Yuanling. I'm sure she could have become an FM or IM if she put more work into it. However, she got into a good university instead, so that's probably better than getting a cool chess title.
Zeljko, you are probably one of the dumbest people here on chesstalk on the same level as other fellows like Andy Shaw. Have you read some of the crap you post on this topic?
Exhibit #1
WYCC age criteria = U18
Your criteria = U25
Therefore, you CANNOT use the same age group when making your point. Part time jobs at Starbucks or wherever and babysitting jobs are awesome for kids in highschool but I don't think anyone would hire a 30 year old to babysit their kids.
Exhibit #2
I'm sure you were taught this in primary school but I see a refresher course might be in order... You see, when kids grow older, they become adults. When girls grow older, they become women. When women become older, they become older women. Women CANNOT become men just by growing older. In a non-physical intellectual activity, there is no reason why women will do worse than men. However, kids will often perform worse than adults because of their inexperience and the fact that their brains are not as fully developed. That is why there are IQ tests for age groups and no differentiation among men or women.
Women are just as talented as men, they just aren't being pushed and challenged enough. Look at Yuanling. I'm sure she could have become an FM or IM if she put more work into it. However, she got into a good university instead, so that's probably better than getting a cool chess title.
As Jean Hebert would say it - you are diseased Bindi. However, you getting biologically older does not seem to have ever cured you.
No one would hire a 30 year old to babysit? Have you never heard of private home daycare? You might have been left alone too often as a kid but not everyone is.
Have you been to a coffee shop? Have you seen the wide age range of people working there in part time jobs?
Really you hold to the age limits chess ability theory even though Bobby Fischer disproved this long ago as did Magnus Carlsen?
The government criteria for youth programs is 25. It is not my criteria. I would think that a difficult to place unemployed youth like yourself would be aware of that. How is the job hunt going by the way?
Anyone can get better if they put more work into it. Your statement is pointless.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7th November, 2012, 11:02 PM.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Hi Gary:
Have to have enough desire to improve, to do the work. Unfortunately, I have generally not been able to study chess ( I just play ) - seems to me to take the fun out of it somehow - a personal problem, I guess. Doubt that would change now in my twilight years LOL
Women are just as talented as men, they just aren't being pushed and challenged enough.
I used to make basically that argument with a guy on a CC chess message board. His argument, as I understood it, was that men are hunters and women are gatherers so their brains are wired differently. He went back to cave man times. I don't agree with his argument but that's basically it.
I used to make basically that argument with a guy on a CC chess message board. His argument, as I understood it, was that men are hunters and women are gatherers so their brains are wired differently. He went back to cave man times. I don't agree with his argument but that's basically it.
Toronto Chess News ( TCN ), next Issue # 1-6, of Nov. 15, will have an article that puts forward that former Canadian Women's Champion, Nava Starr, made a similar argument at a CFC or an OCA meeting years ago, using scientific papers to bolster her argument of gender difference affecting chess ability.
Toronto Chess News ( TCN ), next Issue # 1-6, of Nov. 15, will have an article that puts forward that former Canadian Women's Champion, Nava Starr, made a similar argument at a CFC or an OCA meeting years ago, using scientific papers to bolster her argument of gender difference affecting chess ability.
Bob A, TCN Editor
So... does this mean women just suck at chess? That would be a cool revelation for the chess community.
Toronto Chess News ( TCN ), next Issue # 1-6, of Nov. 15, will have an article that puts forward that former Canadian Women's Champion, Nava Starr, made a similar argument at a CFC or an OCA meeting years ago, using scientific papers to bolster her argument of gender difference affecting chess ability.
Bob A, TCN Editor
I hope your article is a little more specific than that vague description. Years ago? Similar argument? CFC or OCA? Scientific papes?
Hopefully we will get a date, information on which papers, and the nature of her argument as she presented it. Not someone's spin on it years later.
Also of course if you are talking years and years ago then it may be an out of date argument by definition as the science part may be different today. We are all familiar with subsequent studies that disprove earlier studies. We are all also familiar with views about women that have been discredited. For example the suitable role of women in society being limited to homemaking.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7th November, 2012, 11:16 PM.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
There seem to be a lot more girls proportionally in Michigan chess than we have in Canadian chess. Especially fairly strong girls 1900 to 2100. Instead of figuring out how we might limit opportunities for girls to play chess maybe we should be trying to figure out how we might appeal to the half of the population that isn't currently all that interested in chess.
But which team was followed more closely? There are numerous threads here talking of the Open selection process, life at the olympiad, matches against top ranked teams such as Azerbaijan, and our newest GM. The Women's team only gets mentioned out of fairness. I only paid attention when Jackie Peng started turning in great individual results regardless of the team standing. I think it's very clear between the Open and Women's Olympiad teams which ones were there to compete.
If fan interest levels and contending are supposably important ( imho they aren't ) then you are presenting a strong case why neither team should attend most years. Perhaps most young women that are "serious" about chess are quicker to discover then young men like yourself how limiting the whole area of chess is. The women easily could have had a team this year that was as competitive as the men, but almost every strong player from the last decade has quit or taken a break.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Thursday, 8th November, 2012, 01:53 AM.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
In bridge, there are some "Men's" (i.e men only) events, to which women have reacted by going to court. It doesn't seem to affect the "Women's" events which are still taking place.
The Olympics have six gender-neutral competitions - all equestrian. Shooting used to be gender-neutral until a woman won a gold in 1992 - then it was changed back to men/women (identical events, except that women take fewer shots). Archery events are identical for men and women - except that women shoot about 5% fewer arrows.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
I thought the skier was not allowed because she wanted to ski the women race as well and this would give her extra practice time and an unfair advantage.
On poker night at the seniors club I've sat at the women table a couple of times. The guys took turns because there were too many for the mens table and too few for the womens. I don't expect any rush of men to play in womens events. :)
21 people have posted in this thread at this point.
If a motion was brought to the CFC Governors' 2013 Winter ( Jan. 1/13 ) On-line Meeting that:
" CFC dismantle the infrastructure for the separate, parallel women's chess system in Canada "
it is my understanding from the posts here that the following 4 who have posted in this thread would support such motion:
Aman Hambleton
Jean Hebert
Tom O'Donnell
Bob Armstrong
Let me know if I have misinterpreted any of your comments, and this is not the case.
There are a number of others in the other 17 whom I think may support such a motion, but I am hesitant to say they have taken a definite stand. If some of you also would support such a motion, then please let me know by posting such, so I can add your name to my list.
Finally, if you have viewed this thread with some interest, but not yet posted, and would support such a motion, would you also let me know by posting such. I will then add you to the list.
Sometimes, you just have to take a stand!
Thx.
Bob A
( Original Post edited on Nov. 8 )
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 8th November, 2012, 12:15 PM.
Tweet
Comment