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The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
If a motion was brought to the CFC Governors' 2013 Winter ( Jan. 1/13 ) On-line Meeting that:
" CFC dismantle the infrastructure for the separate, parallel women's chess system in Canada "
it is my understanding from the posts here that the following 6 who have posted in this thread would support such motion:
Jack Maguire
Bindi Cheng
Aman Hambleton
Jean Hebert
Tom O'Donnell
Bob Armstrong
Let me know if I have misinterpreted any of your comments, and this is not the case.
There are a number of others in the other 15 whom I think may support such a motion, but I am hesitant to say they have taken a definite stand. If some of you also would support such a motion, then please let me know by posting such, so I can add your name to my list.
Finally, if you have viewed this thread with some interest, but not yet posted, and would support such a motion, would you also let me know by posting such. I will then add you to the list.
Sometimes, you just have to take a stand!
Thx.
Bob A
For the record, Bob, I would NOT support such a motion. I think that girls are ill served by participating in girls only event but I would not deny them said choice.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
I can't remember the last time a female posted on Chesstalk. I can only think back to Hazel Smith who used to post from time to time - that's some time ago.
Someone got a more recent post by a female chess player?
Is this any indication of the extent to which the current women's system is failing women ( as well as the fact that many women don't like the male " wild west " approach to communication which characterizes our beloved board here )?
I have enjoyed reading the female opinions in this thread.
Seems to me that recently, two prematurely old republican males tried to tell a few women all about themselves. It didn't go very well for them. Or for most on this thread.....
I can't remember the last time a female posted on Chesstalk. I can only think back to Hazel Smith who used to post from time to time - that's some time ago.
Someone got a more recent post by a female chess player?
Is this any indication of the extent to which the current women's system is failing women ( as well as the fact that many women don't like the male " wild west " approach to communication which characterizes our beloved board here )?
Bob A
Given the small percent of male and female CFC or CMA members who post here is this an indication of how this board, given your beloved form of communication, is failing most chess players in Canada? You do know that there are posts by women that are pretty recent. Did you bother to read them? Too bad because some of them are quite interesting.
From the sites own stats there are 1788 members of which only 231 are active. So most people who are registered to post don't post. That's only 12%. That does not include those that have not bothered to register. Mostly it is a handful of superposters that post here. People with more than 2000 posts such as yourself. There are really only 10 to 15 posters that have a significant amount of posts and only 2 that post more than you do. Do you really think such a small sample can be the voice of chess in Canada?
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 8th November, 2012, 10:12 AM.
I see no reason why women cannot play chess as well as men, or girls as well as boys.
With the right training it is apparent that they can.
But I do see a point in holding women's and girl's only events in some cases. For example, at a typical chess camp that we run here in Ottawa, we have about 20 boys and maybe 3 or 4 girls. But in one camp, we had several girls register early and so when I told this to female players and their parents it encouraged more girls to come to camp. We ended up with a total of 9 and ran a girls only section for them which they LOVED.
I have noticed this in beginner's classes. The presence of a few girls in the class encourages others to join and stay in the class. This is part of the reason that our classes tend to be half boys and half girls. It only takes one or two examples of girls playing chess to encourage other girls to want to take up the game as well. I think that the number of girls from Windsor going to WYCC has also had an effect. The girls that go to our beginner's classes know about the local players who have gone on to represent Canada at the WYCC from reading about it in the local papers.
So, as a means to encourage more women and girls to play, women's and girl's only events do serve a purpose.
If you want to be taken at all seriously you can't walk away from half the population. We don't have a surplus of chessplayers. Lets not write off half of our potential.
21 people have posted in this thread at this point.
If a motion was brought to the CFC Governors' 2013 Winter ( Jan. 1/13 ) On-line Meeting that:
" CFC dismantle the infrastructure for the separate, parallel women's chess system in Canada "
it is my understanding from the posts here that the following 5 who have posted in this thread would support such motion:
Bindi Cheng
Aman Hambleton
Jean Hebert
Tom O'Donnell
Bob Armstrong
Let me know if I have misinterpreted any of your comments, and this is not the case.
There are a number of others in the other 16 whom I think may support such a motion, but I am hesitant to say they have taken a definite stand. If some of you also would support such a motion, then please let me know by posting such, so I can add your name to my list.
Finally, if you have viewed this thread with some interest, but not yet posted, and would support such a motion, would you also let me know by posting such. I will then add you to the list.
Sometimes, you just have to take a stand!
Thx.
Bob A
( Original Post edited on Nov. 8 )
Well this certainly would be a way to generate publicity for chess. Whether this would be good publicity would be another question. I can see the headlines in the newspaper.
"Chess Governors vote to ban Women".
"Politically Correct NDP supporters vote to end women's chess in Canada".
Well this certainly would be a way to generate publicity for chess. Whether this would be good publicity would be another question. I can see the headlines in the newspaper.
"Chess Governors vote to ban Women".
"Politically Correct NDP supporters vote to end women's chess in Canada".
"Male chess geeks seek to stop female threat".
You missed this one. "Chess nerds vote to play with themselves"
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Just for the record, I don't want to see female only events being banned from chess. I just want parents, coaches, tournament organizers and whoever else is involved to encourage female participation in open tournaments. Right now, I'm assuming that most parents are happy if their daughter wins an age group sectional like the ones they have at CYCC but it's important to realize that most boys of similar ages on average, have to aim for a 300-400 performance increase in order to accomplish the same feat. If more girls are taught at a younger age that in order to really be successful in chess, they have to aim higher too, I see no reason why a lot of girls suddenly quit chess once they reach puberty and/or when they realize being an 1800 just isn't going to cut it.
Actually, you're wrong. At the WSOP, there is a women's event, but under Nevada Gaming, they are not allowed to make a gender discriminated event. So, every year, some men play in it, under the (correct) belief that it's a much weaker field.
Well, the seniors club isn't under Nevada Gaming and it was a case of filling out the tables. The women all ended up at the same table by themselves.
I learned about knitting and cooking recipes.
I stopped going because I got tired of watching old guys catching hangers and other stunts. Nobody said anything but a couple of us smiled and winked and folded. Even for pennies you always get one or two of them.
Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Hi Bindi:
I take it from this post, that you would not really support the motion that we had been discussing as a possible one to bring to the CFC Governors ( see other post of mine ).
So I will delete your name from the list of supporters.
If I'm misinterpreting you, and you do support the motion ( which would eliminate the Girls' CYCC categories ), then let me know, and I'll add you back in.
I guess you are in favour of pretending that this proposal of Bob's is a better solution to encourage female participation in chess.
I'm simply not in favor of continuing a program that is clearly not working.
Substantial resources? Really since when. Niche market? Is that all women are to you? In no way part of the mainstream of participants?
Female players make up a microscopic percentage of the overall CFC membership. That is the definition of a niche market.
How are you measuring this return? I know how to measure ROI but I am cautious when applying it to human beings. The same argument of substantial resources could be made about junior chess.[/QUOTE]
ROI is simply measured in participation. Those juniors (while they are juniors) do participate, and participate a great deal; there's obvious immediate return on the time and resources spent on junior chess. Certainly, it's debatable how much long term return you get. However, the women's chess program provides no return at all.
Another example: There are gyms and women-only gyms. I haven't seen men-only gyms advertised, but in reality I suppose many are mostly men.
Yes, but those are physical activities. If you read my post from before where I was belittling Zeljko for being perpetually stupid, I also made the point that in non-physical activities that rely on intelligence rather than brute strength, men and women should be able to compete on equal grounds. Children, on the other hand develop over time and obviously can't compete on the same level as adults intellectually speaking as their brains do not fully develop at the U18 stage. Being good at chess doesn't mean you are intelligent - this is the single most obvious misconception portrayed in media these days.
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