Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

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  • #31
    Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

    Hal, was the Open Section FIDE rated? I'm monitoring the large gap between FIDE and CFC ratings of some of our top players and musing about the effect on that of having more dual-rated events.
    Paul Leblanc
    Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

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    • #32
      Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

      Originally posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
      Hal, was the Open Section FIDE rated? I'm monitoring the large gap between FIDE and CFC ratings of some of our top players and musing about the effect on that of having more dual-rated events.
      As announced it was FIDE rated as was the U2000 section. My FIDE rating won't change but there are now 2 U2000 players that will have one more FIDE game towards establising their ratings. They still have only 4 games or so each. My FIDE is 1799 based on 22 games I think, but my CFC will move up from 1680 to 1715. If that's the type of info you were looking for.

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      • #33
        Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

        Originally posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
        Hal, was the Open Section FIDE rated? I'm monitoring the large gap between FIDE and CFC ratings of some of our top players and musing about the effect on that of having more dual-rated events.
        Some? Shouldn't it be "all"? :)

        From 2 months ago (the difference is over 100 points!) :
        Originally posted by Roger Patterson View Post
        a
        Code:
        Name		USCF	CFC	FIDE	Comments				
        So	Wesley	2692	2724	2667					
        Sambuev	Bator	unr	2689	2535					
        Bluvshtein	Mark	2539	2632	2590					
        Kovalyov	unr	2644	2598						
        Noritsyn	Nikolay	unr	2605	2461					
        Hansen		2479	2579	2502					
        Gerzhoy	Leonid	2539	2571	2461					
        Krnan	Tomas	unr	2562	2415					
        Samsonkin	Artiom	2553	2396	1498p	USCF	from	2001		
        Quan	Zhe	2503	2642	2431	Last	CFC	game	July	2009
        Castellanos	Renier	unr	2501	2491					
        Hambleton	Aman	2488	2293	1990p	USCF	from	2007		
        Doroshenko	unr	2482	2336						
        Porper	Edward	unr	2475	2420					
        Hebert	Jean	2466	2399	2452	USCF	from	1999		
        Pechenkin	Vladimir	2377	2436	2333					
        Laceste	Loren	2493	2280	2290					
        Calugar	Arthur	2453	2429	2308					
        Panjwani	Raja	2451	2517	2403					
        Hartman	Brian	2443	2438	2374					
        Kaminski	Victor	2418	2315	2247					
        O’Donnell	Tom	2434	2350	2457	USCF	from	2000		
        Plotkin	Victor	2411	2354	2208					
        Cheng	Bindi	2402	2480	2415					
        									
        average		2488	2483	2423
        Average CFC : 2512
        Average FIDE : 2413.125

        And if we remove inactive players or players from provinces were there are no FIDE tournaments, the difference is even higher. With the current CFC rating system, I imagine we could reach a 200 points difference in the next few years.
        Last edited by Felix Dumont; Monday, 8th April, 2013, 12:38 PM.

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        • #34
          Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

          my FIDE is almost higher than my CFC now :D

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          • #35
            Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

            Originally posted by Eric Hansen View Post
            my FIDE is almost higher than my CFC now :D
            Hi Eric:

            So are you living proof that CFC ratings are not inflated?:D

            Bob A

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            • #36
              Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

              Originally posted by Eric Hansen View Post
              my FIDE is almost higher than my CFC now :D
              Ha, that shows you. My FIDE is already higher than my CFC.

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              • #37
                Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                Originally posted by Felix Dumont View Post
                From 2 months ago (the difference is over 100 points!) :
                Average CFC : 2512
                Average FIDE : 2413.125
                Really?

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                • #38
                  Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                  Yes, it's a problem. There isn't much support among the top players to re-set their Canadian ratings to FIDE levels.
                  The good news is that CFC and USCF ratings are pretty close to equivalent.
                  Paul Leblanc
                  Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                    Originally posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
                    Yes, it's a problem. There isn't much support among the top players to re-set their Canadian ratings to FIDE levels.
                    The good news is that CFC and USCF ratings are pretty close to equivalent.
                    Well that's senseless unless the formula will be changed as well right? It will slowly just become inflated all over again. Nevertheless, I do support however temporary a solution it may be.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                      I would also support a reset

                      The USCF is a bit more accurate for top players because they uscf-rate all the foreign FIDE events for its members so that it reflects in the system when someone gains or loses rating abroad. For such a small federation such as the CFC probably It's probably not worth it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                        Originally posted by Eric Hansen View Post
                        I would also support a reset

                        The USCF is a bit more accurate for top players because they uscf-rate all the foreign FIDE events for its members so that it reflects in the system when someone gains or loses rating abroad. For such a small federation such as the CFC probably It's probably not worth it.
                        FQE members can have their tournaments played outside of Quebec (or Canada) FQE rated if they advise the office in advance and pay rating fees. Is there something similar for CFC members?

                        In any case, the first thing to do should be to completely eliminate bonus points.. It may not do anything for the current inflation, but at least it will prevent further inflation...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                          The inflation took place between 2006 and late 2009. Since then the median of the top 100 players has been relatively stable at around 2345. I wasn't the rating auditor back then but one reason that I can think of is participation points which were discontinued in 2010. So far the bonus formula hasn't pushed up the ratings.

                          It's encouraging to see that some of the top players are interested in this issue. I have been keeping the masters' representative informed and perhaps he can test the waters further. I'd want a little more study and a pretty broad consensus before contemplating this move but in principle it could easily be done. There are a few considerations such as someone with an old FIDE rating that is unlikely to be accurate.
                          Paul Leblanc
                          Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                            Originally posted by Felix Dumont View Post
                            In any case, the first thing to do should be to completely eliminate bonus points.. It may not do anything for the current inflation, but at least it will prevent further inflation...
                            I disagree. The bonus system is working well and solving the problem of underrated juniors.

                            Felix, your analysis is superficial, it is based on a crude comparison of CFC and FIDE ratings of the top 100 players only.

                            If you want to "adjust" CFC ratings based on this, then your solution should be to "adjust" just the ratings of those top 100 players. You could propose a formula to reduce the CFC ratings of those top 100 players. Not something I would do, but go ahead if you are so convinced there is a problem. But please limit your tinkering to the top 100 players.

                            Good luck getting them to agree to lower their ratings. :D

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re : Re: Re : Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                              Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
                              I disagree. The bonus system is working well and solving the problem of underrated juniors.

                              Felix, your analysis is superficial, it is based on a crude comparison of CFC and FIDE ratings of the top 100 players only.

                              If you want to "adjust" CFC ratings based on this, then your solution should be to "adjust" just the ratings of those top 100 players. You could propose a formula to reduce the CFC ratings of those top 100 players. Not something I would do, but go ahead if you are so convinced there is a problem. But please limit your tinkering to the top 100 players.

                              Good luck getting them to agree to lower their ratings. :D
                              When we did a comparison last summer between FQE/FIDE and CFC rating (based on every player that was active in both federation), we saw that the average difference was much higher for lower rated players. In many cases, the difference was between 200 and 300 points (or even more).

                              There is indeed an enormous problem (that affects the CFC credibility), but obviously no player will want to see his rating reduced.

                              Underrated junior players will only remain so for two or three tournaments, if they really are underrated, bonus points or not.
                              Last edited by Felix Dumont; Monday, 8th April, 2013, 11:51 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Guelph Spring Pro-Am April 6-7

                                September 2012 USCF vs CFC vs FIDE

                                Name USCF CFC FIDE Comments
                                So, Wesley 2692 2724 2667
                                Sambuev, Bator unr 2689 2535
                                Bluvshtein, Mark 2539 2632 2590
                                Kovalyov unr 2644 2598
                                Noritsyn, Nikolay unr 2605 2461
                                Hansen 2479 2579 2502
                                Gerzhoy, Leonid 2539 2571 2461
                                Krnan, Tomas unr 2562 2415
                                Samsonkin, Artiom 2553 2396 1498p USCF from 2001
                                Quan, Zhe 2503 2642 2431 Last CFC game July 2009
                                Castellanos, Renier unr 2501 2491
                                Hambleton, Aman 2488 2293 1990p USCF from 2007
                                Doroshenko unr 2482 2336
                                Porper, Edward unr 2475 2420
                                Hebert, Jean 2466 2399 2452 USCF from 1999
                                Pechenkin, Vladimir 2377 2436 2333
                                Laceste, Loren 2493 2280 2290
                                Calugar, Arthur 2453 2429 2308
                                Panjwani, Raja 2451 2517 2403
                                Hartman, Brian 2443 2438 2374
                                Kaminski, Victor 2418 2315 2247
                                O’Donnell, Tom 2434 2350 2457 USCF from 2000
                                Plotkin, Victor 2411 2354 2208
                                Cheng, Bindi 2402 2480 2415
                                Cummings, David 2391 2443 2328
                                Piasetski, Leon 2389 2405 2298
                                Qin, Ziyi 2378 2422 2237
                                Yoos, John 2393 2340 2405 USCF from 1999
                                Sasata, Robert 2385 2273 2348 USCF from 1994
                                Yam, Alex unr 2373 2267
                                Kraiouchkine, Nikita 2343 2240 2123p USCF from 2006
                                Gardner, Robert 2353 2236 2161 USCF from 1999
                                Trevor, Vincent unr 2353
                                Lee, Vicente unr 2333 2255
                                Fuentebella, Mayo unr 2318 2167
                                Gansvind, Valeria unr 2309 2246
                                Masse, Hugues 2373 2291 2213
                                MacKinnon, Keith 2143 2301 2152
                                Paul Leblanc
                                Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

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