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  • Originally posted by Erik Malmsten View Post

    We live in a mixed economy. In 2010 the public sector of 3.6 million people accounted for 20% of employed Canadians, and many businesses depend on government contracts. So Libertarians want to throw 90% of these people out of work. Or Libertarians want government workers to work for lower wages at private for-profit companies so, I don't know, that the rich can get richer.

    Governments provide the infrastructure of roads, electricity and water. Maybe Libertarians want these services only available to the wealthy in gated communities. Lots of employment available as security guards, servants, prostitutes, and entertainers to the rich. Governments provide regulations to stop deaths from food poisoning and poisonous waste. But Libertarians want freedom for large industries to kill. Governments provide public schools and hospitals. But Libertarians wants this to only be available to the few, and privatized so more profits for the rich. Social programs keep old, disabled, and poor people alive, but Libertarians want them dead. All of this change because the rich are suffering so much from one of the lowest tax rates in the world.

    In 2020 spending by all governments in Canada was $1,069 billion, a 33% increase due to covid. $27,045 per person breaks down as:
    1. Social Protection 8,527 (unemployment 3,131, old age 1,711, family and children 1,682, disability 874) Up 70% from 2019
    2. Health 5,787 (Hospitals 3,719, Recreation, culture and religion 543)
    3. Economic affairs 4,260 (transport 919, environmental protection 431, fuel & energy 339,farming & fishing 302) Up 109% with business and Emergency Wage Subsidy
    4. General public services 3,496 (foreign aid 189)
    5. Education 2,989 (University 642, College 380)
    6. Public Order and safety 1,072 (police 493, courts 149, prisons 145, fire 139)
    7. Defence 614
    8. Housing 300 (water supply 150, street lighting 15)

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...11126a-eng.htm
    Erik,
    Libertarianism is in fact a cure for the ills of capitalism; in the latter, the rich have an unfair advantage over the not-so-rich in making more money, while in libertarianism, because access to capital is not restricted by silly regulations, how much an individual can earn depends only on how capable and hard working she or he is.... The not-so-rich should welcome libertarianism, and the capitalists indeed do not want it introduced...
    D

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Erik Malmsten View Post

      ...
      4. General public services 3,496 (foreign aid 189)
      ...
      Foreign Aid = 0.7%+/- of the budget, which is about where it was 18 or so years ago when Bono met with PM Paul Martin to ask that Canada bump that percentage up! IIRC, Economist Jeff Sachs, about 20+/- years ago, calculated that foreign aid = 2% of budget in advanced economies would, if properly administered (i.e. no corruption), go a long way towards eliminating developing world poverty.
      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

        How about being able to do whatever you want, so long as you do not harm others/environment, how about electing/appointing a government which serves you (by ensuring that unscrupulous elements do not harm you and by ensuring the free flow of information), instead of bossing over you and even robbing you, how about trusting the ability of civilization to innovate and produce the necessary goods and services in plenty (without governments restricting them with a myriad of silly regulations meant to benefit their corrupt supporters)? Getting a glimpse of Libertarianism?
        Libertarianism is not the answer. Human history is a story of the rich and powerful exploiting the poor and the weak. Thru the ages, kings vs pheasants, masters & slaves, rich vs poor, dictators vs citizens, authoritarian leaders vs the oppressed, capitalist owners vs workers. Democratic governments are meant to counterbalance the power imbalance, nobody is above the law, etc.etc. it doesn't always work well, but it seems Libertarian philosophy is that the government is the enemy. Wrong. The answer is to make it work better. Libertarianism is simply to surrender.

        Comment


        • Libertarianism will work perfectly if everyone loves one another, it will not work if people do not, as is the case with any "ism".

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post

            Libertarianism is not the answer. Human history is a story of the rich and powerful exploiting the poor and the weak. Thru the ages, kings vs pheasants, masters & slaves, rich vs poor, dictators vs citizens, authoritarian leaders vs the oppressed, capitalist owners vs workers. Democratic governments are meant to counterbalance the power imbalance, nobody is above the law, etc.etc. it doesn't always work well, but it seems Libertarian philosophy is that the government is the enemy. Wrong. The answer is to make it work better. Libertarianism is simply to surrender.
            In the same vein as Brad's posts above, none of the systems will help us till such time as governments continue to be power-hungry and corrupt... when they evolve into truly being able to enforce Natural Law, Libertarianism will work best of all systems we know...
            Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Wednesday, 29th December, 2021, 09:38 AM.

            Comment


            • Given the fact that humans cannot be expected to love one another it seems to me that the best system is a world wherein there exists opposing systems just as we have now. If we only had democracy/capitalism then the richest would be very few in number and the vast majority would be horribly exploited. If we only had communism then a diabolical dictator would take power and the exploitation and cruelty would be horrendous. Thus, a planet that is balanced by having both types of systems, to an extent keeping each other in check, is the best we can hope for. Maybe we are not as stupid as I have been suggesting. :) But now that we have an overpopulated planet with the climate going bonkers, and a pandemic that sooner or later will produce the Omega variant, we need a miracle, for we are clearly not going to save ourselves. A cull is in progress and it will not stop until there are not enough people left on the planet to threaten its continued ecological existence. We are messing with Nature.
              Last edited by Brad Thomson; Wednesday, 29th December, 2021, 12:25 PM.

              Comment


              • Fact: COVID-19 globally will not do anything to change the electors' minds about the political system of government they prefer.

                Fact: Climate Change Suicide, the path we are on, will change the electors' minds, when the situation becomes much worse, about the political system of government they prefer......it will then be too late.

                Fact: It is now already too late......all the best-intentioned changes of governments, organizations and individuals will be insufficient, given they will be made within the current systems.

                Projection: The only hope is world-wide revolution at the ballot box, electing as our governments, a political party that does not yet exist, that is solely dedicated to the radical changes in society required to avoid humanity going over the cliff.

                Bob A (T-SB)

                Comment


                • I agree, Bob, with all that you say. But the chances of our "only hope" taking place are next to zero. We are going over the cliff. Unless a miracle takes place.

                  Comment


                  • I will suggest something very unusual.......everyone must make up their own minds..........

                    The Miracle:

                    1.The covert ET Societies of Earth decide to publicly disclose themselves immediately. The covert AI's do the same.
                    2. The progressive ET's align themselves publicly with the progressive humans and AI's.
                    3. This new political coalition seeks power at the ballot box as I have described above.
                    4. Across the globe, this "new coalition" succeeds politically!
                    5. The new government passes legislation radically re-aligning our new multi-galactic Earth so that species suicide is avoided.

                    Sources:

                    1. Documentary: Documentary re Government Secrecy re ET Contact:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qT44T64_2o

                    2. Former Canadian Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer:

                    A.

                    https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOFl29Uos9K8%26feature%3Dshare%26fbclid%3DIwAR3cBHZ-NZXhso50SyT7QNG05exrFpcE5fszPLBWz9DPr5Qm7IkP3GbD3E8&h=AT3_JWIhdyKc9zEF2lRIoDy1tX11wmj7pFU71lGdS2J11WyLbHhyhZEms0MVqJM8rRn-xsPNx-r2hycPaDM3SPX03_Czt3rJI0rAFq5pYmfjEOjbLFcfYl9qyDJqj8_1UTJO7ZYcHxml&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT3s21arwrVtCJjHJ350gqWxz2sKVluan-ZI9D4zMNUHjjPfScTko_2xBnM6IYO2D1RzbVIaBgFdxwPMTReXzmpv2ktaJV0I9yKUJFS6BiMPqhqUXDpiJ4pxcgGy1uUH4mWinrYF-GWs-9igrsEvdDUzeCA

                    B.

                    E.T. Message - ‘We Are Here To Help You, If You Allow Us' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooHIIKudsQ

                    3. Former Israeli Official:

                    A.

                    https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fweird-news%2Fformer-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR02W7poyA8ZXmJcnaI8WYb6VR2kvv_b-8O2Qj84fpwIUTTn-WCMm_QiZzk&h=AT2DO8futVUmmlRXAY_Ohqgjjd3wU8PRb6oVYBclXDOjmNhPkUpxi06E9Y9eo7-U4oXuWmCA_lPPtR6HglZnQyNEKVRBVQblfYT1xspM5S4tvr4rTzFT1J_kNfXH2xA5h36Kaf2RoAao&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT3s21arwrVtCJjHJ350gqWxz2sKVluan-ZI9D4zMNUHjjPfScTko_2xBnM6IYO2D1RzbVIaBgFdxwPMTReXzmpv2ktaJV0I9yKUJFS6BiMPqhqUXDpiJ4pxcgGy1uUH4mWinrYF-GWs-9igrsEvdDUzeCA

                    B.

                    https://www.facebook.com/lost9672/vi...10393309056189


                    Bob A (T-SB)

                    Note: ChessTalk date stamp for my posts is still Eastern Daylight Time (1 hr. ahead) - this was posted at 3:13 PM Eastern Standard Time)
                    Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Wednesday, 29th December, 2021, 08:42 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Interesting miracle Bob. I do believe that miracles are possible for the following simple reason. Existence itself is miraculous, there should be nothing. There can be no explanation for existence. For example if we say it comes from God, then we ask where did God come from? Then, where did that explanation for God come from? And so on, ad infinitum. Likewise if we say existence began with the Big Bang. So what caused the Big Bang? What caused what caused the Big Bang? What caused what caused what caused the Bog Bang... Thus, all is miraculous, all comes from NOTHING, or if you prefer, all does not come from anything. Everything, then, is a miracle. Whether we will be saved from ourselves I do not know, but I do not believe we will save ourselves, we need help, a miracle. If the pandemic does not kill us then climate change surely will.

                      Comment


                      • Hijacking

                        I feel the few recent posts on climate change have hijacked this COVID-19 thread.

                        I think that the topic is important and that we should discuss it in its own thread........so I just started a new thread on climate change.

                        I'd suggest that those interested continue the discussion there, not here.

                        Thanks.

                        Bob A (T-SB)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

                          Hijacking
                          Let's just say your previous post left most of us speechless!!

                          what does (T-SB) mean?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
                            I will suggest something very unusual.......everyone must make up their own minds..........

                            The Miracle:

                            1.The covert ET Societies of Earth decide to publicly disclose themselves immediately. The covert AI's do the same.
                            2. The progressive ET's align themselves publicly with the progressive humans and AI's.
                            3. This new political coalition seeks power at the ballot box as I have described above.
                            4. Across the globe, this "new coalition" succeeds politically!
                            5. The new government passes legislation radically re-aligning our new multi-galactic Earth so that species suicide is avoided.
                            ....
                            Soooo... a coalition that includes Extraterrestials and Artificial Inseminators?

                            I hope these two will be included in the coalition:

                            Click image for larger version

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                            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post
                              I have always argued that no system will work if the people do not love one another, the animals and the planet, and that any system will work if the people do. The debate is not in my opinion between communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy, libertarianism, or even dictatorship or anarchy, but simply between whether we are loving or not. The problem is not the system, it is the selfish idiots that compose it. Any system would work if we were loving, sharing and not so stupid, no system will work the way we are now. What is required is not a change of system, but rather a change of attitude. I think that at long last Nature has figured this out, too bad we cannot. We are a suicidal species, we can think only of growing the economy despite the fact that the planet is of a limited size that remains stable and does not grow with our population numbers and economic activity. If the planet kept getting bigger all the time then our current systems might work. But it won't. We die as a result of our conduct. We have brought this upon ourselves.
                              I think there is a term for this suicidal behavior, it is called the "herd instinct". We run with the herd, feeling safety in numbers. The difference between animals running towards an abrupt cliff and humans moving towards a societal disaster is that we do in fact see the disaster coming. And still we run towards it.

                              It is my belief that the kind of loving you talk about Brad is the thing we all want but cannot have here on Earth. While our souls crave that kind of world and those kind of relationships, the body has its own cravings, and this is by design. This world was never intended to become a nirvana, or even close. It must always be full of misery, of want and starvation, of the few rich and the many poor, of disease and pestilence. To think that we can change that while residing in our human bodies is to miss the point. Even the fact that we as a species are constantly creating new generations while our elders die off is again by design, so that lessons learned will never sweep over the entire species. The newest members will always pursue their own paths of greed, continuing the run towards the cliff.

                              Comment


                              • Hi Bob G:

                                I understand that part of my post wanders into a very controversial global issue with respect to climate change.

                                There is lots of information out there in addition to the few sources I noted.

                                We are all responsible to update our own personal "Theory of Everything" when we agree there are new "facts", which have not been part of our Multi-Verse Paradigm (M-VP).

                                You asked: "What does (T-SB) mean?"

                                Answer:

                                Truth-Seekers Brigade Promotional

                                Truth-Seekers Brigade (T-SB)


                                Something a bit fun, and a bit serious.

                                A friend of mine and I have formed a new organization (No administration) called:

                                The Truth-Seekers Brigade (T-SB)

                                To become a member, you must use your first name at the bottom of all posts, and after it put in brackets: T-SB

                                There is no screening process; there is no membership list: there is no head office; there is no secretariat!

                                You merely have to self-identify as a "Truth-Seeker" and start signing as all members are required to sign.

                                Not too onerous, eh ? (Am I giving away my nationality here?)

                                The theory is this:

                                If many people start posting "The Truth" as they see it, and ask hard questions of those who hold the truth, where it is being hidden, it will raise the level of world awareness of the true reality in which we live.

                                A journey of a 1000 kilometers begins with a single step. You can help change the world!.

                                This piece is intended to be promotional. If you are going to join the Brigade, or if you just think this project has merit, please assist by sharing/copying & pasting this promo for your friends to see, and consider.

                                Thanks.

                                21/12/27

                                Bob A (T-SB)
                                Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 30th December, 2021, 04:16 AM.

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