COVID-19 ... how we cope :)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Only a vast economic shutdown NOW will save us from complete ecological disaster.

A simple way to make a huge difference:
1. Cut down the size of governmental activities (local, provincial, federal, international like WHO) by 90% or more.
2. Make the remaining 10% or less libertarian, which would open up wonderful possibilities:
a} Only Justice, policing and public education would be the function of the government. We would not need massive militaries, because all objections to one world, one country would disappear.
b) The unholy alliances between corrupt politicians and the gigantic business leaders would disappear, with the pyramid schemes that these businesses are (the rewards of frontline workers being channelled up the corporate chain), being replaced by thousands of co-operatives, more efficient and with benefits to the co-operative members as well as the consumers...
c) Many many more possibilities, including achievement of net-zero...

[Pargat Perrer]

A simple way to make a huge difference:
1. Cut down the size of governmental activities (local, provincial, federal, international like WHO) by 90% or more.
2. Make the remaining 10% or less libertarian, which would open up wonderful possibilities:
a} Only Justice, policing and public education would be the function of the government. We would not need massive militaries, because all objections to one world, one country would disappear.
b) The unholy alliances between corrupt politicians and the gigantic business leaders would disappear, with the pyramid schemes that these businesses are (the rewards of frontline workers being channelled up the corporate chain), would be replaced by thousands of co-operatives, more efficient and with benefits to the co-operative members as well as the consumers...
c) Many many more possibilities, including achievement of net-zero...

I would really like to hear more about "all objections to one world, one country would disappear". Would that one country be a police state? There will always be human greed to contend with, it is built into each of us and only some tiny minority of us can control it.

Since there are no more Americas to be discovered and start afresh (although Mars is one far-off possibility), the requirement for this idealistic vision is the very culling that Brad says is coming. Only then can the karmic cycle begin to repeat itself, to end many centuries later in yet another greed-fueled collapse.

But when the amplitudes of the karmic cycles get larger and larger so that even the survival of the Earth itself is at stake at the height of the greed cycle, there can be a mother-of-all-resets which might as Brad states involve the near extinction of humanity.

So there are a few points to consider:
1) we are in the midst of a global virus pandemic which is characterized by rapid mutations, thus making the possibility of a worldwide highly-lethal variant very likely
2) we have ocean ports around the world glutted with full shipping containers, and many thousands more of them stuck outside the ports waiting for their chance to be unloaded
3) the world's biggest stock markets are setting unprecedented highs despite both the pandemic and the destruction from climate change

Now ask yourself: are we at the height of the greed cycle? :)

[Brad Thomson]

Interesting thoughts from both of you. But unless we lock down now and for a long time the questions will be moot.

[Pargat Perrer]

Interesting thoughts from both of you. But unless we lock down now and for a long time the questions will be moot.

Brad, I know that you realize lockdowns are not coming, and you have said several times here for us to make the most of our remaining time before things go incredibly bad.... I'm just wondering what you would advise young people to do. They don't want to just make the most of some remaining time, they want to actually DO something. There's that Swedish teenage girl who's a climate activist, Greta Thunberg, and she was at the recent climate convention and said nothing at all is going on there, the old people are in charge and nothing new is being done. So what can you advise for young people? Would you advise an uprising of some sort? I mean, what can they do? I feel for them because they are the ones who really bear the brunt of the worries, and they want to do SOMETHING.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Pargat:

My view:

Climate Change Suicide - inevitable under our current conditions and recent societal trajectory.. All the most well-intentioned acts will FAIL.

Solution: The Rise of a Global Non-Capitalist political party which will be free of the current global power structure, such that they will be able to legislate the very radical "re-making" of human society necessary to avoid species suicide (And we will take down many of our current co-resident species with us).

Youth Task:

1. Create this radical new political platform;
2. Create in every nation the political party that is going to run to replace all capitalist parties......and they must decide if existing Democratic Socialism, USSR-style Communism, or Democratic Marxism, are up to the task.......if not, a totally new political party, with a new radical model of human self-governance, and global economics, is requited to be created.
3. Full court press in every nation of the world, to make this "Realignment with Nature Party" the government across the globe.
4. Get all these new governments legislating ASAP!

~ Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

Thank you Pargat, very interesting ideas Bob. The only solution is radical population reduction. Stop having children is the first thing I would advise everyone, not just the young. But how to convince India, China and other countries? Forget it. It is FAR too late, the cull is needed, Nature will make sure it happens. The young may survive, then I do like Bob's ideas for a starter. We MUST all become vegan as well. We MUST fully respect the planet, or the cull will be complete. Nature is totally sick of us and has had enough of our reckless, disgusting conduct. As I have noted earlier, there is nothing wrong with most aspects of our modern, luxurious lifestyle. The big problem is that there are far too many of us doing it.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Solution: The Rise of a Global Non-Capitalist political party...
Get all these new governments legislating ASAP!

~ Bob A (T-SB)

Hey Bob,
For millions of years, the immense variety generated by mutations, and the amazing diversity demonstrated by animals and humans in dealing with nature, led to a few surviving and proliferating, while the majority got extinct ...
The boring uniformity and frightenning conformity of a highly legislated society, with hype-mongers and manipulators considered to be 'experts' having been proven to be invariably wrong throughout history, is not aligned with nature at all...
D

[Brad Thomson]

For millions of years, the immense variety gnerated by mutations

Not all of us believe that random mutations lead to improvements in species. Some of us believe that each species was created as it is and that mutations are retardations and deformities.

[Bob Gillanders]

......frightening conformity of a highly legislated society,.......

Oh, you mean democracy, free and fair elections, rule of law, human rights, protection of the environment, protection against worker exploitation, curbing corporate greed, promoting the common good, eliminating poverty, universal health care, sharing, diplomacy, cooperation.......in a word, civilization.

Sounds wonderful to me, not frightening at all.

You prefer to eliminate most of government, let everyone do whatever they want? In other words, chaos.
I have never understood the Libertarian philosophy.

[Dilip Panjwani]

I have never understood the Libertarian philosophy.

How about being able to do whatever you want, so long as you do not harm others/environment, how about electing/appointing a government which serves you (by ensuring that unscrupulous elements do not harm you and by ensuring the free flow of information), instead of bossing over you and even robbing you, how about trusting the ability of civilization to innovate and produce the necessary goods and services in plenty (without governments restricting them with a myriad of silly regulations meant to benefit their corrupt supporters)? Getting a glimpse of Libertarianism?

[Pargat Perrer]

How about being able to do whatever you want, so long as you do not harm others/environment........

That is a pipe dream, not achievable by humanity. For one thing, who gets to decide what harms others or the environment? Someone fallible and corruptible, that's who. Even if such a system started off well, within a generation or two it would be rife with corruption and greed, as always.

And if somehow you did have someone "pure" making such decisions, then you have to face the fact that 90% of what we all want to do harms others or the environment. We can't drive a vehicle without harming the environment. Until we have working cold fusion energy supply, 90% of the energy we need and use every day harms the environment.

.....how about trusting the ability of civilization to innovate and produce the necessary goods and services in plenty (without governments restricting them with a myriad of silly regulations.......

You see, there you go, "silly" regulations. What about "silly" regulations designed to prevent things like this....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news...?ocid=msedgntp

...from someone who "innovated" to produce a service?

Getting a glimpse of Libertarianism?

Yes, I think it is called The Stone Age.

[Brad Thomson]

I have always argued that no system will work if the people do not love one another, the animals and the planet, and that any system will work if the people do. The debate is not in my opinion between communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy, libertarianism, or even dictatorship or anarchy, but simply between whether we are loving or not. The problem is not the system, it is the selfish idiots that compose it. Any system would work if we were loving, sharing and not so stupid, no system will work the way we are now. What is required is not a change of system, but rather a change of attitude. I think that at long last Nature has figured this out, too bad we cannot. We are a suicidal species, we can think only of growing the economy despite the fact that the planet is of a limited size that remains stable and does not grow with our population numbers and economic activity. If the planet kept getting bigger all the time then our current systems might work. But it won't. We die as a result of our conduct. We have brought this upon ourselves.

[Erik Malmsten]

A simple way to make a huge difference:
1. Cut down the size of governmental activities (local, provincial, federal, international like WHO) by 90% or more.
2. Make the remaining 10% or less libertarian, which would open up wonderful possibilities:
a} Only Justice, policing and public education would be the function of the government. We would not need massive militaries, because all objections to one world, one country would disappear.
b) The unholy alliances between corrupt politicians and the gigantic business leaders would disappear, with the pyramid schemes that these businesses are (the rewards of frontline workers being channelled up the corporate chain), being replaced by thousands of co-operatives, more efficient and with benefits to the co-operative members as well as the consumers...
c) Many many more possibilities, including achievement of net-zero...

We live in a mixed economy. In 2010 the public sector of 3.6 million people accounted for 20% of employed Canadians, and many businesses depend on government contracts. So Libertarians want to throw 90% of these people out of work. Or Libertarians want government workers to work for lower wages at private for-profit companies so, I don't know, that the rich can get richer.

Governments provide the infrastructure of roads, electricity and water. Maybe Libertarians want these services only available to the wealthy in gated communities. Lots of employment available as security guards, servants, prostitutes, and entertainers to the rich. Governments provide regulations to stop deaths from food poisoning and poisonous waste. But Libertarians want freedom for large industries to kill. Governments provide public schools and hospitals. But Libertarians wants this to only be available to the few, and privatized so more profits for the rich. Social programs keep old, disabled, and poor people alive, but Libertarians want them dead. All of this change because the rich are suffering so much from one of the lowest tax rates in the world.

In 2020 spending by all governments in Canada was $1,069 billion, a 33% increase due to covid. $27,045 per person breaks down as:
1. Social Protection 8,527 (unemployment 3,131, old age 1,711, family and children 1,682, disability 874) Up 70% from 2019
2. Health 5,787 (Hospitals 3,719, Recreation, culture and religion 543)
3. Economic affairs 4,260 (transport 919, environmental protection 431, fuel & energy 339,farming & fishing 302) Up 109% with business and Emergency Wage Subsidy
4. General public services 3,496 (foreign aid 189)
5. Education 2,989 (University 642, College 380)
6. Public Order and safety 1,072 (police 493, courts 149, prisons 145, fire 139)
7. Defence 614
8. Housing 300 (water supply 150, street lighting 15)

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...11126a-eng.htm

[Bob Armstrong]

Clarification re Change in Governments

In saying that there must be a new global political party, I am in no way suggesting we go further into "The New World Order (NWO)"! There are people now slowly taking us in that direction, incrementally and covertly. Humanity must NOT go there.

I suggest a single party because there will need to be global effectiveness (Not the patchwork, unjust and unequald mess we've seen with pandemic vaccination across the globe).

But this party MUST, IMHO, call for a total re-alignment of power in governance.....local control is best.......small is beautiful (Read the book). But we must all be rowing in the same direction, democratically, not under some, even beneficent, dictator. All Local Political Units (LPU's) will have to democratically agree to the global strategy, and pass legislation implementing it.

Even though it seems somewhat counterintuitive in a "global" crisis, "decentralization" is our only hope......we must wrest power from where it currently resides, and that is not in governments (Though we need control of governments in order to do battle with those currently directing us all down this suicidal path we are on re Anthropogenic Negative Climate Change (ANCC) - and the specter of nuclear war at the moment is not very far out of our possible future, as well).

In ending, at least one problem with Libertarianism, in my view, is that it ignores the placement of human power over others under different political structures. I agree with Bob G that it leads to chaos, but then quickly evolves into government of the strongest (One that does not respect the role of ethical action in human society).

Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

We are fiddling while Rome is burning.