Anthropogenic Negative Climate Change (ANCC)

[Bob Armstrong]

Climate Change Suicide

21/12/29

Fact: COVID-19 globally will not do anything to change the electors' minds about the political system of government they prefer.

Fact: Climate Change Suicide, the path we are on, will change the electors' minds, when the situation becomes much worse, about the political system of government they prefer......it will then be too late.

Fact: It is now already too late re climate change......all the best-intentioned changes of governments, organizations and individuals will be insufficient, given they will be made within the current systems.

Projection: The only hope is world-wide revolution at the ballot box, electing as our governments, a political party that does not yet exist, that is solely dedicated to the radical changes in society required to avoid humanity going over the cliff.


Projection Miracle

For the projection to come about, a miracle is needed. This is the miracle:

1.The covert ET Societies of Earth decide to publicly disclose themselves immediately. The covert AI's do the same.
2. The progressive ET's align themselves publicly with the progressive humans and AI's.
3. This new political coalition seeks power at the ballot box as I have described above.
4. Across the globe, this "new coalition" succeeds politically!
5. The new government passes legislation radically re-aligning our new multi-galactic Earth so that species suicide is avoided.

Sources:

1. Documentary: Documentary re Government Secrecy re ET Contact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qT44T64_2o

2. Former Canadian Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer:

A.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOFl29Uos9K8%26feature%3Dshare%26fbclid%3DIwAR3cBHZ-NZXhso50SyT7QNG05exrFpcE5fszPLBWz9DPr5Qm7IkP3GbD3E8&h=AT3_JWIhdyKc9zEF2lRIoDy1tX11wmj7pFU71lGdS2J11WyLbHhyhZEms0MVqJM8rRn-xsPNx-r2hycPaDM3SPX03_Czt3rJI0rAFq5pYmfjEOjbLFcfYl9qyDJqj8_1UTJO7ZYcHxml&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT3s21arwrVtCJjHJ350gqWxz2sKVluan-ZI9D4zMNUHjjPfScTko_2xBnM6IYO2D1RzbVIaBgFdxwPMTReXzmpv2ktaJV0I9yKUJFS6BiMPqhqUXDpiJ4pxcgGy1uUH4mWinrYF-GWs-9igrsEvdDUzeCA

B.

E.T. Message - ‘We Are Here To Help You, If You Allow Us' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooHIIKudsQ

3. Former Israeli Official:

A.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fweird-news%2Fformer-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR02W7poyA8ZXmJcnaI8WYb6VR2kvv_b-8O2Qj84fpwIUTTn-WCMm_QiZzk&h=AT2DO8futVUmmlRXAY_Ohqgjjd3wU8PRb6oVYBclXDOjmNhPkUpxi06E9Y9eo7-U4oXuWmCA_lPPtR6HglZnQyNEKVRBVQblfYT1xspM5S4tvr4rTzFT1J_kNfXH2xA5h36Kaf2RoAao&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT3s21arwrVtCJjHJ350gqWxz2sKVluan-ZI9D4zMNUHjjPfScTko_2xBnM6IYO2D1RzbVIaBgFdxwPMTReXzmpv2ktaJV0I9yKUJFS6BiMPqhqUXDpiJ4pxcgGy1uUH4mWinrYF-GWs-9igrsEvdDUzeCA

B.

https://www.facebook.com/lost9672/vi...10393309056189


Bob A (T-SB)

Note: 1. ChessTalk date stamp for my posts is still Eastern Daylight Time (1 hr. ahead) - this was posted originally at 3:13 PM Eastern Standard Time)

2. This topic and post were hijacking the COVID-19 thread. I felt the topic important enough that we should discuss it on its own......hence I've started this new thread. I hope this is acceptable to everyone.


Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

I am of the opinion that the pandemic and climate change are directly related. Nature is upset with us and will not tolerate our conduct any longer, so we are punished with the pandemic to hopefully cause us to wake up, or if not that, to kill us off and reduce our numbers to the point where there simply are not enough of us left to further damage the ecosystem. We learned when we shut down initially that the ecosystem began to recover, this was our wake up call. But we quickly fell asleep because money and our lifestyle are more important than dealing intelligently with our destruction of the ecosystem. We are going over the cliff, and the Omega variant is not far off.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad:

I agree that Nature has a great capacity to balance itself, and has remained "sustainable".........at least, until we came along and started unbalancing it in so many ways.


There are cycles of expansion and contraction of various species, as a predator may diminish its food source, and lo and behold the predator develops a fatal illness. And then the hunted species which had shrunk, has a vacuum, and it starts having bigger litters since the risk is down.

As far as I can research, on current trajectory, the "Tipping Point" of Nature (Where we will no longer be able to put it back into its historical balance) is about Jan. 1, 2031........only 9 years away! YIKES.

We must completely solve the problem now........we must not pass the "Tipping Point" continuing on the current path......it will be the start of our species suicide. The "New Nature" will be lethally hostile to our species, and many of our co-resident species.

~ Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

Bob, do you see Nature as blind and mechanistic, or conscious and deliberate? Personally, I believe the latter.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad:

You likely are aware of Gaia - this cosmolggy sees the Universe as a Conscious Entity, organic, having many live parts, which are really part of this Absolute - this is the Eastern Mysticism - age-old.

Is it this that you mean by "Nature - Conscious and deliberate"?

I need to be clear about your position in order to try to respond on point, if that is OK.

~Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

It is not easy to articulate my entire philosophical position briefly, but I shall try. First, I accept the teleological argument. This argument contends that the universe is so fantastically organized and sophisticated that it could not have come about by fluke, random chance, or accident. Thus, we must have an intelligent designer. I also believe that the problem of evil demonstrates that there is no loving and merciful Jehovah type of God. If God was loving, merciful, all-knowing and fully powerful then by definition evil could not exist. But evil does exist, therefore we have no such God. Thus we have a middle position between atheism and theism. A conscious power, but a brutal one rather than a benevolent one. (I do believe that this power, what I call Nature, will be as good to us as we are to it, or as bad to us as we are to it.) Also, I do not believe in the existence of matter, or material substance. I am very much a proponent of the immaterialist thinker George Berkeley in this respect, though he is a Christian. I am also very much a proponent of the idealist thinker GWF Hegel who contends that God is an evolving organism. For Berkeley only God and finite spirits/minds exist. What we sense, what we see, touch, taste, smell and hear, are simply ideas in the imagination of God/Nature that we are given access to. All reality is mind, all substance is conscious. We are little minds immersed in the gigantic mind, we live in the imagination of God/Nature. When we will to move our bodies (which are only ideas in our minds), God/Nature responds by creating the appropriate ideas of sense that correspond to our volition. Finally, there is nothing permanent but change, thus substance/mind/God/Nature is Time itself. This may correspond to the Eastern tradition as you suggest, but it also corresponds, in my interpretation at least, to the Western tradition as it began with the ancient Greek thinkers from Heraclitus and Parmenides to Plato and Aristotle.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad:

We are definitely in stressful times - the pandemic is immediate, and the most catastrophic results of climate change are imminent, including human species suicide. The former appears (Though many argue otherwise) to be natural; the latter.......well.....I just say we've made a humungus mess of it all..

In times like this, it is not uncommon to look for someone to blame, even if we are aware of our contribution to the problem. And so people quickly raise the relationship of all this pain and suffering to the teachings of Religions. God becomes low-hanging fruit re the "cause" of pain and suffering in this world we live in.

Because of this, I feel you and I are not hijacking this climate change thread into the topic of religion.......many, many people are trying to reconcile religious beliefs and world catastrophe, such as climate change. It is an inevitable part, from the human point of view, of trying to mentally and emotionally cope with the most stressful situation in our human history. As well, the nature of certain religions, particularly Eastern Mysticism, can put a rather unique spin on climate change (The Universe as Consciousness, and all is Unity).

So I would like first to deal in general, in my next post, with the always current issue of: God & Evil.

Some may have comments that differ from our view of there being a legitimate link between Climate Change & Religion.....comment away!

Also, if anyone wants to respond to Brad, and go at "God & Evil", please do so.

Then I'll go on with the issue of Evil, from my religious point of view as a "Theist", and its relationship to Human Suicide. I'll also comment on any other points raised by anyone else re this topic, in addition to Brad's.

Bob A (T-SB)

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad:

I agree with you that the link between religion and climate change is most important to many across the globe.......I believe world surveys have shown that about 80% of humans believe that God, or described as some higher power, exists. And most of these belong to the many mainstream human religions. So this aspect of climate change is of great interest to many across the globe.

The Mechanistic God

First published in 1687, English physicist Sir Isaac Newton's (1642–1727) Philosophiae naturalis principia mathematica (Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy) dominated the intellectual landscape of physical science throughout the eighteenth century. Newton was, without question, the culminating figure in the Scientific Revolution of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries—and the leading advocate of the mechanistic vision of the physical world initially posited by French mathematician René Descartes (1596–1650). Within his lifetime Newton saw the rise and triumph of Newtonian physics and widespread acceptance of a mechanistic universe (one that operates with mathematical precision and predictable phenomena) among philosophers and scientists. Newton's laws—and his theory of a clockwork universe in which God established creation and the cosmos as a perfect machine governed by the laws of physics—viewed matter as passive, moved and controlled by “active principles.”

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science...istic-universe

This has led to a belief that God does "exist", and did "create" (Your teleological argument).

But since the Universe was like a perfect clock, and needed no maintenance, God went on "break", but then never came back to work.........why?....there was nothing left for S/He/It to do!

You come at this point from a slightly different point of view. You say that since we see pain and suffering in the Created World, and it is not a "Perfect Clock", wouldn't a "loving" creator help out its "creation", and intervene to prohibit such pain and suffering.? Your argument is that since S/He/It isn't intervening, then it is true that God has effectively "gone away", is "indifferent to the fate of the "Created". So we are simply on our own.....God, after creating, then abandoned His/Her creation, and left it totally to its own devices. You add that God was not really a "Loving Creator" - you posted: "If God was loving, merciful, all-knowing and fully powerful then by definition evil could not exist."

But clearly there is "evil" in God's creation.

But is there an explanation that reconciles that God Loved his creation into existence, and continues to love it in its existence, with the direct evidence of Earthly "evil"?

Your answer is a clear "NO"......the Creator is "brutal".

I'm going to suggest that your view of non-matter existence, and each Mind being "little minds immersed in the gigantic mind" is a religious debate that can be set aside for the moment while we deal with "Evil as it appears to all of us in this life (Whether it is Illusion or not)" and what it indicates about the Nature of God.

Before I post my view on God & The Problem of Evil, do you, or anyone, want to comment on where we have now come to so far in this discussion of climate change?

Bob A (T-SB)

[Bob Gillanders]

2022 is here. We go into the new year still fighting off COVID, with the bigger challenge of climate change ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV7k...ealEngineering

Aliens are not coming to our rescue, neither is God, it is up to us collectively to save ourselves.

We know the problem and the solution, we just need to do it.

[Brad Thomson]

Aliens are not coming to our rescue, neither is God, it is up to us collectively to save ourselves.

We know the problem and the solution, we just need to do it.

Agreed, but my fear is that we will not do it. It is too late and there are too many of us. Only radical population reduction will work now, and Nature will see to this.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad & Bob G:

I agree with Bob G on at least two points he makes:

1. God will not save us from Climate Change Suicide. To be transparent, I am a Theist. I believe the Supra-Natural exists, always has, and always will, and exists on it own unique plane of existence. The Supra-Natural, out of love, created all else that is, Spirit and matter. In them he embedded a positive evolutionary plan to allow them to finally return to His/Her/Its loving presence forever. S/He/It loves his "creations". BUT the Supra-Natural gave free will, and will not take it away. The Declaration is this:

"You made the mess; I have given you the tools not to end up here; if you are committing suicide it has been of your own free will. To interfere to "save" is to go against the very principle of free will which I employed in creating. Sort it out as best you can."

2. The ET's will not save us......I'll explain why they have made this decision in my next post.

~ Bob A (T-SB)

[Brad Thomson]

I do not believe that God has effectively gone away. In fact, because I do not believe in the existence of matter, my view is that God is constantly here, placing our ideas of sense directly into our minds in real time and at all times as S/He/it also imagines them for S/He/itself as well. We live in the body/imagination of God at all times. The Laws of Nature are simply the patterns of God's thoughts, there is no matter operating according to them. There is no mechanism working without God that has been left in place and is capable of operating independently. My immaterialism is based upon the arguments of Berkeley (who understood Newton, discussed him in detail and rejected him completely), and to me they are totally convincing, though I will not go into them now. Hegel would suggest that God is an evolving organism, learning about Him/Herself at all times, and developing, or actualizing. In other words becoming both in and for Him/Herself, developing self-knowledge. In the beginning, and we are not far from the beginning at this early stage, God is a baby, knowing nothing. Now he is a brat. I believe that God is initially brutal, yes, but S/He/it is capable of becoming loving and will do so to the precise extent that we as a species are loving. If all of us learned to love each other then we would all live forever in bliss. If we do not love, we die. I do not see God as initially loving, humans need to show God the way, but we are not doing a very good job of it. The evil is a result of human choices, yes. Evil is manifested initially in bad thoughts, and these lead to physical pain and ultimately death as God's response. God is not love necessarily, or initially, but God can become love and will become love if humans are loving and show Him/Her the way.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Brad & Bob G:

I agree with Bob G on at least two points he makes:

1. God will not save us from Climate Change Suicide. To be transparent, I am a Theist. I believe the Supra-Natural exists, always has, and always will, and exists on it own unique plane of existence. The Supra-Natural, out of love, created all else that is, Spirit and matter. In them he embedded a positive evolutionary plan to allow them to finally return to His/Her/Its loving presence forever. S/He/It loves his "creations". BUT the Supra-Natural gave free will, and will not take it away. The Declaration is this:

"You made the mess; I have given you the tools not to end up here; if you are committing suicide it has been of your own free will. To interfere to "save" is to go against the very principle of free will which I employed in creating. Sort it out as best you can."

2. The ET's will not save us......I'll explain why they have made this decision in my next post.

~ Bob A (T-SB)

Hey Bob A,
Do you believe that if I asked you to raise one of your hands, it is your free will which one you raise? Carefully conducted experiments have shown that such is not the case, supporting the growing consensus amongst philosophers that free will does not exist. It would therefore be disingenuous to make an imaginary God hide behind imaginary free will to explain his/her/its inability to deal with evil...
D

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Dilip:

We did discuss this once before a long time ago here on ChessTalk, and I think we just agreed to disagree.

I do not see the Multi-verse as totally dictated with respect to every curve and turn, and that intelligent inter-galactic life has no role in the changes occurring in the "present", the only thing that is (The past and future are not existing). Yes, we are conditioned in our choices by our biology (E.g. - brain structure), our metabolism, our hormones, etc. These "affect" the way we "choose" (Read "free will"), but do not "determine only one course of action (Determinism) is available" and like an automaton, we blindly move forward.

I believe that I don't punch you because I "have to; mechanically I have no choice". Yes, you meanly insulted my wife, and so I have emotions of anger, resentment, etc. rapidly building in my body, and the fight or flight mechanism starts to operate. I believe that before I act, I "decide" whether to punch you or not. And my action is guided by two things:

1. My ethics, freely adopted by my free will, for my own unique self (Not determined for me from the time of creation of the first amoeba; I determine my own ethics/morality);
2. My ability to use my "free will", to go against all my primordial instincts to just punch you out, and to turn and walk away, -- this is against my normal human instincts, and only because I "choose" to follow my own ethical standards, and have actually been able to implement them by free will in a difficult life situation.

Yes.....there do, Dilip, appear to be two possible options as the "fact": Determinism vs Free Will.

As "Truth-Seekers", each of us individually are to decide what the evidence available supports, and then decide one way or the other.

It is also an option to say that the assembled evidence is inconclusive of proof of either, and that therefore, the current position will be agnostic or I just don't know yet which is the "Truth". More evidence is required that satisfies me.

~ Bob A (T-SB)

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Brad:

A very clear explanation of your cosmology.....I am assisted in understanding it by the recent new learning I've gotten on Eastern Mysticism, from which you somewhat draw........though you also are into Western explanations of existence (Plato - the Ideal and the Shadow; Aristotle: Substance vs Accident).

~ Bob A (T-SB)