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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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B. Goal of this Thread[LIST][*]To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)[*]To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.
Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024
1. It is still Marxism, a system seriously detrimental to society.
2. Huge Minuses, as already described. Cannot remember any valid pluses being shown.
The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic
A. Statistics
1. Weekly Stats:
Week # 26 of 2024 (6/24-30 [7 days])
(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)
.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day Views/Day........Views/Day.............(26 wks.)
Last week's stats are consistent with the prior week – steady interest and participation. But they lag behind the year's stats. This is understandable since at the start there was a flurry of responses. The current rate of response is now only about ½ the year to date (Which is heavily weighted by the beginning period).
More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. The thread does involve discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants, so “current” issues do arise.
Fundamentally, though, this thread is an “educational” thread about something that may not be that attractive to some CT'ers. Nonetheless, the yearly average stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 24; Responses - 2) are good.
The stats do show that CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective. This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.
Note: I, as originator/main poster, am now just posting per week, on Mondays, the past week's stats, and on Tuesdays, 1 DM discussion paper. But I do try to respond to response questions, and introduce new “current” topics when they seem appropriate, especially re “current events”. So, overall, it is expected that the stats have slowly come down, and are now at a slower, steady pace.
B. Goal of this Thread
To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.
Additional Notes:
1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.
2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.
Allende's policies did result in crippling hyperinflation and associated misery.
In any case, dear Bob, you are not explaining why DM is not seriously detrimental to human society, a conclusion based upon economic and social modelling, which shows that DM will lead to shrinking of the economy, hyperinflation and misery. And if you cannot explain that, should you not stop blowing the horn of DM, a system seriously detrimental to human society?
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 25th June, 2024, 09:22 AM.
I said Chile under Allende was the "closest" to a Democratic Marxist government in history.
But the Unity Government of Salvadore Allende was in fact a coalition of the Chilean Socialist Party (Of which Allende was leader) and the very traditional Chilean Communist Party, to whom Allende had to listen, or have his government collapse.
And as I have posted many times, and you always ignore, both the Chilean business forces, opposition parties and USA worked tirelessly, and often covertly, to oppose everything the government tried to do. This effort at a quiet revolution (That was not so quiet) FAILED miserably. The public, by a majority, continued to support their elected government, despite all the problems.
So.....having failed on the first attempt......the next answer of those opposed .......the old military coup... under Chilean General Augusto Pinochet, aided by the CIA (Documented). Allende was surrounded by soldiers in the Presidential Palace. He knew he would be mercilessly tortured if captured alive. So he gave his last presidential speech, and then committed suicide before the soldiers got to him.
Yep......good old Capitalism knows how to deal with the strongly liked left-wing among the Chileans......entrench opposition, and if that doesn't work, just kill.
In your own words, DM was tried in Chile. It failed miserably there, with triple digit hyperinflation and associated misery.
In Libertarianism, getting what one deserves ends up in people becoming more deserving.In DM, on the other hand, getting what one needs ends up in people becoming more needy.
Co-operation with others helps individuals to be more successful in baking their own pies, as it does in making rules about how to share a common pie; fair competition plays a role in forcing people to work hard and smart to bake bigger pies, as it does to make people try to snatch a bigger piece of an ever-shrinking common pie... so co-operation and competition are human characteristics which both come into play whatever system one adopts. The above explains why adopting DM would be seriously detrimental to human society, and why you should stop blowing its horn, dear Bob!
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 25th June, 2024, 08:41 AM.
Bob,
Why do you keep blowing the horn of Marxism, when economic and social modelling (bolstered by history) clearly shows that Marxism is seriously detrimental to society?
If you believe that the economic and social modelling is flawed, then you should be able to explain why you believe so, which you have been unable to do.
Don't you think that it is wrong to keep on blowing the horn of something that is seriously detrimental to society, and that you should spare chesstalk of it?
The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic
A. Statistics
1. Weekly Stats:
Week # 25 of 2024 (6/17-23 [7 days])
(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)
.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day Views/Day........Views/Day.............(25 wks.)
Last week's stats are better than the prior week since there were more responses. But they lag behind the year's stats. This is understandable since at the start there was a flurry of responses.
More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. The thread does involve discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants, so “current” issues do arise.
Fundamentally, though, this thread is an “educational” thread about something that may not be that attractive to some CT'ers. Nonetheless, the yearly average stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 24; Responses - 2) are good.
The stats do show that CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective. This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.
Note: I, as originator/main poster, am now just posting 1 DM discussion paper per week, near the start of the week. But I do try to respond to response questions, and introduce new “current” topics when they seem appropriate. So, overall, it is expected that the stats will slowly come down, compared to the beginning phase of this thread.
B. Goal of this Thread
To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.
Additional Notes:
1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.
2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.
Marxism has the same ills (a shrinking economy, hyperinflation and widespread misery), whether it is the proletariat or the 'vanguard' of the proletariat calling its shots...
Lenin, and even more so, Stalin, were Marxian heretics.
Both did not trust the worker.
Both embraced the elitist concept of "Vanguard of the Proletariat". This was not a concept of Karl Marx, but of Lenin. In fact, Marx was turning over in his grave, at this warped concept being alleged to be a legitimate extension of Marxism.
The Role of the “Vanguard”
In Russia, the workers implemented a successful Revolution, deposing the Czar.
And what did they achieve by this?
The “Vanguard” then turned the revolutionary guns against the worker! Suddenly the “Vanguard” ruled, rather than the Czar. The Vanguard determined the next “revolutionary steps”. The Vanguard determined what were workers' “rights”.
All this is diametrically opposed to the Marxian commitment to fundamental human rights, and to true "democracy". True Marxism respects all human rights, and democracy.
The Unfolding of the Revolutionary Universe
All current old-style USSR Communist countries are now subject to this same criticism.
"Vanguardism" (as elaborated by Lenin/Stalin) means robbing the worker of power, and centralizing all power into a bureaucracy that the Vanguard controls, not the worker. Stalin had taken the next step and centralized all power in himself, becoming the Dictator over the workers. This was continued by our modern Communist Party governments (Xi Ping of the Chinese Communist Party).
The Writings of Marx
My research (I freely admit I am not an academic Marxist scholar, just a Marxist proletariat theorist) is that Marx never mentioned in his writings, and certainly not in the Communist Manifesto, any concept of "vanguardism".
It would be anathema to his fundamental belief in democracy, and the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.
The concept is a heretical extension of Marxism, initiated by Lenin.
b. Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus
1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic
A. Statistics
1. Weekly Stats:
Week # 24 of 2024 (6/3-9 [7 days])
(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)
.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day Views/Day........Views/Day.............(24 wks.)
Last week's stats are very low. This is not surprising when almost no responses were posted.
More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. The thread does involve discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants, so “current” issues do arise.
Fundamentally, though, this thread is an “educational” thread about something that may not be that attractive to some CT'ers. Nonetheless, the yearly average stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 25; Responses - 2) are good.
The stats do show that CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective. This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.
Note: I, as originator/main poster, am now just posting 1 DM discussion paper per week, near the start of the week. But I do try to respond to response questions, and introduce new “current” topics when they seem appropriate. So, overall, it is expected that the stats will slowly come down, compared to the beginning phase of this thread.
B. Goal of this Thread
To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.
Additional Notes:
1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.
2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.
1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic
A. Statistics
1. Weekly Stats:
Week # 23 of 2024 (6/3-9 [7 days])
(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)
.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day Views/Day........Views/Day.............(23 wks.)
Last week's stats are similar to those of the prior week, but lag behind those of 2024 so far. This is not surprising since for a new topic/thread there is often an up-front flurry of activity, 'til things settle in at a slower, normal pace.
More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. The thread does involve discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants, so “current” issues do arise.
Fundamentally, though, this thread is an “educational” thread about something that may not be that attractive to some CT'ers. Nonetheless, the stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 27; Responses - 2) are good, and not that far below many other active threads in the Non-chess forum.
The stats do show that CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective. This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.
Note: I, as originator/main poster, am now just posting 1 DM discussion paper per week, near the start of the week. But I do try to respond to response questions, and introduce new “current” topics when they seem appropriate. So, overall, it is expected that the stats will slowly come down, compared to the beginning phase of this thread.
B. Goal of this Thread
To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.
Additional Notes:
1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.
2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.
Bob,
Ever thought of why politics is a 'blood' sport? Because the underhanded rewards for the politicians themselves match the risks they take in fighting to gain power. As far as the 'worker' is concerned, he just pays for the sins of the predators in the corrupt systems you listed in your post #361, all of them except Libertarianism, in which becoming a politician would not be a sought-after career at all (the closest to this ideal is currently in Sweden). That is why Libertarianism is likely to be panacea, and when it will become the norm, with its shining principles of 'universal enforcement of Natural Law' and 'easy access to capital for all', it will unleash society's productivity to bring greater rewards to all... Just break yourself from the shackles of being a Marxist (Marxism has failed again and again), and think fresh for a change...
You are forgetting that Libertarianism is the only system in which the only power (and solemn duty) politicians have is to enforce the Natural Law. ''''''''
Bob A. isn't "forgetting", he just knows what you say is total bullshit. There is no LIbertarian Party in North America talking anything about fictitious "Natural Law".
It is your own cultist fantasy. What a sad desperate person you are.
You are forgetting that Libertarianism is the only system in which the only power (and solemn duty) politicians have is to enforce the Natural Law. In all the rest, on the right and the left, politicians violate the Natural Law (and enable its violation by their bribers and arse-lickers) under the garb of governance...corrupt and unnecessary 'governance', the worst of it being in Marxism! Only in Libertarianism does the common man have the true freedom (and power, given the easy access to capital) to decide how he or she (usually by co-operating with like-minded others) achieves his/her goals without violating the Natural Law...
So Bob, come out of the old political garbage and step into the fresh new world!
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 4th June, 2024, 08:14 AM.
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