Democratic Marxism

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism
(Started: 24/1/3)

Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic

A. Statistics


1. Weekly Stats:

Week # 15 (24/4/8 – 14 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)


.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(15 wks.)

…18.....................20.......................29


................................................2024 Average

Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(15 wks.).

........1......................1.......................3

2. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

Last week's stats are running behind those of 2024 so far! But they are consistent with the prior week. It seems that the thread now has a somewhat steady participation, below that when the thread was new.

This thread is fundamentally an “educational” thread about something that may not attract many CT'ers. Nonetheless, the stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 29; Responses - 3) are good, and not that far below many other active threads in the Non-chess forum.

More discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. There is discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants.

CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective.

I, as originator/main poster, will now likely just post 1 discussion paper per week, near the start of the week, and try to respond to questioning responses. So the stats should be expected to slowly come down a bit.

This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.

B. Goal of this Thread

• To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
• To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

Additional Notes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.



Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

Most Recent Revision: 24/4/2

Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global

(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717)

Fb Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development



Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Peter:

I agree with Galbraith.

Dem. Marxism, however, has the ability to lessen the corruption by power and to narrow the Capitalist wealth/income gap.

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

The politicians in Dem Marxism would be just as powerful and just as corrupt. The income gap is replaced by poverty for everyone, compounded with the misery of inflation and a shrunken national output leading to widespread shortages... and workers end up suffering like they never would in Libertarianism.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Peter:

I agree with Galbraith.

Dem. Marxism, however, has the ability to lessen the corruption by power and to narrow the Capitalist wealth/income gap.

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

[Dilip Panjwani]

"From each according to his means, to each according to their needs."

Karl Marx (Not an old-style USSR Communist; a "Communist" of the Communist Manifest)

This Marxist idea works to some extent within the innermost circles, but rapidly becomes dysfunctional as one starts to include the outer circles...

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism - "From each according to his means, to each according to his needs."

Discussion Paper # 19


Origin

[Peter] Kropotkin, an anarchist, developed a variant of anarchist theory known as anarchist communism. Kropotkin and his followers went beyond Bakunin’s collectivism, arguing not only that the means of production should be owned cooperatively but that there should be complete communism in terms of distribution.

This theory revived the scheme described in Sir Thomas More’s Utopia (1516), involving common storehouses from which everyone would be allowed to take whatever he wished on the basis of the formula “From each according to his means, to each according to his needs.”

In The Conquest of Bread (1892), Kropotkin sketched a vision of a revolutionary society organized as a federation of free communist groups. In recognition of his scholarship, Kropotkin was invited to write an article on anarchism for the 11th edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/ana...rchist-thought

Karl Marx use of the Concept

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" (German: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen) is a slogan popularised by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Programme. The principle refers to free access to and distribution of goods, capital and services.

Q.: What is the most important principle of communism according to Marx?

The ultimate goal of Marx's Communism is a classless, stateless society, where production is democratized, and resources and goods are produced according to each person's ability and distributed according to each person's needs.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-me...nist-Manifesto

Comment

Karl Marx was NOT an old-style USSR Communist; but a "Communist" of the Communist Manifesto.

Democratic Marxism (DM) deliberately shies away from using the term "Communism" in describing itself, because the term is now not associated with the Communist Manifesto, but with the heretical bastardization of Marx in old-style USSR Communism. DM is fundamentally different than USSR Communism.



Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)


Author - Bob A, Coordinator

Original: 24/4/14

Distribution: 24/3/11: (CT.DM)

Contact Us: Via Fb:

a. Page: Democratic Marxism - Global:
https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-Marxism-Global-748579292265552/?modal=admin_todo_tour

b. Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development

Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2024

[Peter McKillop]

Some leftists believe that the communist world would work if "good people" were in control. But they don't
realize that, by definition, good people don't want to control other people's lives.
Ludwig von Mises

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."

John Kenneth Galbraith

[Sid Belzberg]

Some leftists believe that the communist world would work if "good people" were in control. But they don't
realize that, by definition, good people don't want to control other people's lives.
Ludwig von Mises

[Bob Armstrong]

Societal Contribution

In psychology, "manipulation" is defined as subterfuge designed to influence or control another, usually in a manner which facilitates one's personal aims. Wikipedia

"Subterfuge" - noun: subterfuge; plural noun: subterfuges

• deceit used in order to achieve one's goal.

https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/

One can, without any deception, intended, or, unintended, simply present ideas to the public "for their consideration" (What I do).

Adults are expected to take responsibility for their own decisions, and make decisions about what is placed before them for consideration. They determine the character of that presented, and if there is some reason to be suspicious of any presentation of ideas.

Bob A (Believes humans are capable discerners)

[Neil Frarey]

Hey, Bob 'Click Bait' A. ... Ma-nip-u-la-tion

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism – What is It?

Democratic Marxism Discussion Paper # 13



Basically

• Marxist (NOT USSR-style “Communist” as we’ve generally seen it)
• It is one of the 3 historical implementations of the theory of “Socialism”.

Long Description

Democratic Marxism is a term employed to emphasize the compatibility between democracy and Marxism.[citation needed].

According to Kenneth Megill in his book The New Democratic Theory:[1]

"Democratic Marxism is authentic Marxism—the Marxism which emphasizes the necessity for revolutionary action. Loyalty to the movement, not loyalty to any particular doctrine, is characteristic of the orthodox democratic Marxist."[2]

In his book Chile's Democratic Road to Socialism, Michael H. Fleet also uses the term democratic Marxism to describe the nature of the Chilean government at the time of Salvador Allende's presidency:

"During at least two of the three years of democratic Marxist government, however, Chile faced severe economic and political crises."[3]

Wikipedia

DMGI NOTE: We disagree with Michael H. Fleet (See above) when it comes to Allende's Chile. Salvador Allende was a “socialist” and always headed the socialist party. He was never a Marxist, and was elected President as a “socialist”.

See DMGI's archive article on Allende & Chile, entitled “Marxism in History”, written by our Coordinator, Bob Armstrong, in 2016. It was posted that year as well on the internet (A Blog). This backs up our position in this “Note” above.


“Socialism”

There are three historical implementation of the theory of socialism:

1. USSR-Style Communism - North Korea

2. Democratic Socialism - Venezuela

3. Democratic Marxism - Chile (1970-3)

Since Democratic Marxism is fairly new, the demarcation lines between it and democratic socialism are not yet all that clear. But Democratic Marxism does see itself as espousing things not in democratic socialism (The main one is that the Principle of Subsidiarity, as a democratic principle, is only espoused by DM).

Sources

Two of the key books are:

1. The New Democratic Theory – Kenneth Megill

2. Chile's Democratic Road to Socialism – Michael H. Fleet

It is the opinion of the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) that the closest implementation of Democratic Marxism occurred in Chile in 1970-3, under President Salvadore Allende. His Socialist Party had a plurality in the election, and since he himself was quite far left, he was quite pleased to have the traditional USSR-style Communist Party of Chile join with his party to form a "Unity Government" majority.

More on how Allende governed can be found in the recent book, Strongmen, by Ruth Ben-Ghiat, p. 42-47.

1. The Father's Day Manifesto - the post pinned to the top of the scroll on the Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global (https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-...dmin_todo_tour).

4. DMGI is evolving the positions of DM on its Fb Page ( Democratic Marxism – Global – see above), and its Fb group:Democratic Marxist Global Forum - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus).


Lenin/Stalin

DM does not believe in the conjunction: Marxist-Leninist.

Rather, Lenin/Stalin is a heresy, broken off from authentic "Marxism". This is vehemently opposed by all USSR-style Marxists that we have encountered so far.

When Lenin implemented his idea of socialism, he departed dramatically from Marx with respect to "democracy".

Leninism/Stalinism believed in the "Dictatorship of the Vanguard of the Proletariat". Marx however, never entertained this.....he only spoke of the direct goal of "the dictatorship of the Proletariat".

As a result of the Lenin/Stalin heresy, the guns of the proletariat, that brought about revolutions, then immediately were turned backwards onto the Proletariat by the "Vaguard" who seized the power away from the Proletariat, turned the state into a police state where the worker was not trusted, and used breach of human rights as a tool of control.

Marx (We assume he is in heaven, though in his later life he was atheist) is turning over in his grave at USSR-style communism's claim that they are the moral progeny of all Marx wrote!


Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, Coordinator

Original – 21/3/9

Distribution: 24/4/8: (CT.DM;DMPO;DM;DMGF;TRN)

Contact Us: Via Fb:

a. Page: Democratic Marxism - Global:
https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-Marxism-Global-748579292265552/?modal=admin_todo_tour

b. Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development



Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2021

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism
(Started: 24/1/3)

Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.

2.The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic



A. Statistics

1. Weekly Stats:

Week # 14 (24/4/1 – 7 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)


.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(14 wks.)

…20......................19.......................30


................................................2024 Average

Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(14 wks.).

........1......................1.......................3

2. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

Last week's stats are running behind those of 2024 so far! But they are consistent with the prior week.

This thread is fundamentally an “educational” thread about something that may not attract many CT'ers. Nonetheless, the stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 30; Responses -3) are impressive, and not that far below many other active threads in the Non-chess forum

And discussion/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. There is discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants.

CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective.

I, as originator/main poster, will now likely just post 1 discussion paper per week, near the start of the week, and try to respond to questioning responses. So the stats should be expected to slowly come down a bit.

This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.

B. Goal of this Thread

• To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
• To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

Additional Notes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.



Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

Most Recent Revision: 24/4/2

Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global

(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717)

Fb Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development



Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024

[Dilip Panjwani]

Also, often, what is done charitably, should be a "right of the citizen", and should be taxpayer funded.

Bob A

The only 'god-given' right we all can claim is the right to enforcement of the Natural Law. The rest is all duties/responsibilities, the primary amongst them being the responsibility to earn a living for oneself and one's dependents. Libertarianism would make performing this primary responsibility very, very easy. The need to steal from the taxpayer arises because of the stupid and corrupt laws the politicians of Marxism and of Capitalism have created to place obstructions in the path of one carrying out one's primary responsibility mentioned above, along with crooks 'voting' for their 'right' to have free stuff given to them by governments... And nowadays, do we not hear all the time that the majority of voters are plain stupid?: Just ask Hilary Clinton why she lost or ask Joe Biden what he is most afraid of! Would it not be nice if such democracy is replaced by something which we all agree to, which is the enforcement of the Natural Law, and minimize the role of the 'government' to such enforcement?

[Neil Frarey]

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.

Your self-righteousness is staggering ... as usual, Bob G.

Chess For Charity ... CFC's new program?

https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...-s-new-program

If not now ... when? Bobs??

A mere .25 cents from every rating fee ... .25 cents.

How about only 15 cents, Bob G & A ... from every rating fee the CFC brings in???

Please Bobs ... don't become the problem.




.

[Neil Frarey]

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.

Chess For Charity ... CFC's new program?
https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...-s-new-program

[Bob Gillanders]

The decision to collect tax money on a progressive basis (Not theft) and how to spend it (On the vulnerable and services to the taxpayer), IS "the role of government" in a democracy, and it is the will of the majority.

What others do by "by charitable action (Family, Religions, Community Organizations, etc.)" is helpful to society and often supplements government inadequacy due to the majority's wrong priorities. Also, often, what is done charitably, should be a "right of the citizen", and should be taxpayer funded.

Bob A

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

A much more humane generous society approach, in stark contrast to the Libertarian approach.

When I see the poor begging for change on the street, I honestly don't know if they are truly in need or just a scam. I trust and pray that there are government services available to help, else the guilt of not helping would be overwhelming. We humans are generous, until we are taught otherwise. I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.