Democratic Marxism

[Dilip Panjwani]

Also, often, what is done charitably, should be a "right of the citizen", and should be taxpayer funded.

Bob A

The only 'god-given' right we all can claim is the right to enforcement of the Natural Law. The rest is all duties/responsibilities, the primary amongst them being the responsibility to earn a living for oneself and one's dependents. Libertarianism would make performing this primary responsibility very, very easy. The need to steal from the taxpayer arises because of the stupid and corrupt laws the politicians of Marxism and of Capitalism have created to place obstructions in the path of one carrying out one's primary responsibility mentioned above, along with crooks 'voting' for their 'right' to have free stuff given to them by governments... And nowadays, do we not hear all the time that the majority of voters are plain stupid?: Just ask Hilary Clinton why she lost or ask Joe Biden what he is most afraid of! Would it not be nice if such democracy is replaced by something which we all agree to, which is the enforcement of the Natural Law, and minimize the role of the 'government' to such enforcement?

[Neil Frarey]

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.

Your self-righteousness is staggering ... as usual, Bob G.

Chess For Charity ... CFC's new program?

https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...-s-new-program

If not now ... when? Bobs??

A mere .25 cents from every rating fee ... .25 cents.

How about only 15 cents, Bob G & A ... from every rating fee the CFC brings in???

Please Bobs ... don't become the problem.




.

[Neil Frarey]

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.

Chess For Charity ... CFC's new program?
https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...-s-new-program

[Bob Gillanders]

The decision to collect tax money on a progressive basis (Not theft) and how to spend it (On the vulnerable and services to the taxpayer), IS "the role of government" in a democracy, and it is the will of the majority.

What others do by "by charitable action (Family, Religions, Community Organizations, etc.)" is helpful to society and often supplements government inadequacy due to the majority's wrong priorities. Also, often, what is done charitably, should be a "right of the citizen", and should be taxpayer funded.

Bob A

I absolutely agree 100%. Thank you Bob.

A much more humane generous society approach, in stark contrast to the Libertarian approach.

When I see the poor begging for change on the street, I honestly don't know if they are truly in need or just a scam. I trust and pray that there are government services available to help, else the guilt of not helping would be overwhelming. We humans are generous, until we are taught otherwise. I would rather live in a society that protects the vulnerable, than leaves them to wither away, forgotten.

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism vs USSR-style Communism



Democratic Marxism Discussion Paper # 12

Fundamental Characteristics of USSR-style Communism, once in Power

DM maintains that USSR-style Communist countries (Currently 4: China, North Korea, Vietnam & Cuba) are heretical Marxist variants and have implemented a deformed type of Marxism. They have totally abandoned both democracy and respect for the human rights of their citizens.

Here are the three flawed policies of USSR-style Communism:

1. Anti-Democratic - Do not allow full, open, multi-party elections; do not give the workers the right to choose, because they cannot be trusted to vote for the status quo, and re-elect the Communist Party.

2. Oppressive Control of the Worker - A police state, involving extensive surveillance of the workers, is necessary to maintain the communist program and to suppress dissent.

3. Breaches of Workers Human Rights - This is necessary to maintain communist order, and to present the image to the world of communist society that the Communist Party wishes to present.

Example - China

The Communist Party of China (CPC) exhibits both the characteristic of Authoritarianism/Police State, and breaching citizens human rights, in their dealings with Hong Kong.

DM finds this totally unacceptable as an alleged implementation of Marxian socialism. The CPC are heretics to Marxism.

It is because of the culture of the USSR-style Communist countries, like China, that Communist Parties across the globe will never be elected to government freely by the workers. This has been seen for years now in Canada, as the CPC and CPC (M-L) have been singularly unsuccessful at the ballot box. And this in a relatively free and fair Canadian capitalist electoral system.

Democratic Marxism offers a new paradigm of socialism that can win at the ballot box.


Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, Coordinator
Original – 21/2/12

Distribution: 24/3/11: (CT.DM;DMPO;DM;DMGF;TRN)

Contact Us: Via Fb:

a. Page: Democratic Marxism - Global:
https://www.facebook.com/Democratic-Marxism-Global-748579292265552/?modal=admin_todo_tour

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E-mail:

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Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development


Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2021

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism
(Started: 24/1/3)

Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.

2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic




A. Statistics

1. Weekly Stats:

Week # 13 (24/3/25 – 3/31 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)


.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(13 wks.)

…19.......................33.......................30


................................................2024 Average

Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(13 wks.).

........1.......................3.......................3


2. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

Last week's stats are running behind those of last week and 2024 so far! The reason is the drop in “responses” - no new material = no reason to come for regular viewers of this thread. Also, this thread is fundamentally an “educational” thread about something that does not attract many CT'ers. Nonetheless, the stats for this thread (Per day: Views – 30; Responses -3) are impressive.
CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective.

And discussions/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. There is discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants.

I, as originator/main poster, will now likely just post 1 discussion paper per week, near the start of the week, and try to respond to questioning responses.

This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.

B. Goal of this Thread

• To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
• To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

Additional Notes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.

Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

Most Recent Revision: 24/4/2

Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global

(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717)

Fb Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development



Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024

[Bob Armstrong]

The decision to collect tax money on a progressive basis (Not theft) and how to spend it (On the vulnerable and services to the taxpayer), IS "the role of government" in a democracy, and it is the will of the majority.

What others do by "by charitable action (Family, Religions, Community Organizations, etc.)" is helpful to society and often supplements government inadequacy due to the majority's wrong priorities. Also, often, what is done charitably, should be a "right of the citizen", and should be taxpayer funded.

Bob A

[Dilip Panjwani]

The Libertarian Government

Americas - Argentina

"Argentine President Javier Milei plans to fire 70,000 government workers in the coming months in one of the clearest signs yet of how the libertarian’s chainsaw-style approach intends to slash the swollen state.

Beyond the job cuts, Milei boasted Tuesday at an event that he’s frozen public works, cut off some funding to provincial governments and terminated more than 200,000 social welfare plans, which he labelled as corrupt. It’s all part of his strategy to reach a fiscal balance at any cost this year."

It's going to take some time for him to implement, and then some time to see the long-term effects.

I think the Argentinians are going to publicly revolt when this wild west conservative Capitalism bites.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n=openamericas

Bob A (Woke Dem. Marxist)

Javier Milei is not stupid to believe that the government should keep on transferring money from Peter et al (who have built an ability to earn it and have built a network of family and friends to support each other) to Paul et al (who have neglected to do what Peter et al have done). The Argentine people rejected such calamity called DM, and voted Milei to power, expecting him to do what he is doing! Bob, you can continue to have a problem with that, like those few hooligans in Argentina (like Pinochet et al in Chile) who are hoping to use violence to make the government keep on transferring money from Peter to Paul...
Supporting one another is the role of family and friends, not of a government forcefully transferring money between people unknown to each other.

[Bob Armstrong]

The Libertarian Government

Americas - Argentina

"Argentine President Javier Milei plans to fire 70,000 government workers in the coming months in one of the clearest signs yet of how the libertarian’s chainsaw-style approach intends to slash the swollen state.

Beyond the job cuts, Milei boasted Tuesday at an event that he’s frozen public works, cut off some funding to provincial governments and terminated more than 200,000 social welfare plans, which he labelled as corrupt. It’s all part of his strategy to reach a fiscal balance at any cost this year."

It's going to take some time for him to implement, and then some time to see the long-term effects.

I think the Argentinians are going to publicly revolt when this wild west conservative Capitalism bites.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n=openamericas

Bob A (Woke Dem. Marxist)

[Peter McKillop]

Hi Peter,
Had been tied up with something very time-consuming at work... well, now that the weekend is here, let me spell out for you an important element of Libertarianism:
We cannot totally avoid the outcome of competition harming the loser to a certain extent, but what we need to ensure is that everyone competing agrees that the means used to compete should not include harming the other competitors. Only then, like a game in a chess tournament, would it be 'fair competition'...

Thanks, Dilip, for that clarification.

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism

(Started: 24/1/3)

Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.

2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic





A. Statistics

1. Weekly Stats:

Week # 12 (24/3/18 – 3/24 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)


.....................................................2024 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(12 wks.)

…33.......................60.......................31


................................................2024 Average

Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(12 wks.).

........3.......................8.......................3


2. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

Last week's stats are consistent with 2024 so far! The stats of the week prior to that were an encouraging anomaly :) Phenomenal for what is fundamentally an “educational” thread.

CT'ers are interested in learning more about DM, and about government from the DM perspective.

And discussions/increased participation does happen when a current controversial issue is brought into the thread. There is discussion of current political affairs from the different perspectives of the various participants.

I, as originator/main poster, will now likely just post 1 discussion paper per week, near the start of the week, and try to respond to questioning responses.

This thread is an opportunity to learn something about the political system known as “Democratic Marxism”! It is also an opportunity to question DM in a good and safe forum, where we try to respect the right of all CT'ers to have their own analysis, and to be entitled to put it forward for consideration, even if differing from DM.


B. Goal of this Thread

• To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
• To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

Additional Notes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

2. CT'ers are welcome to post responses here regularly, in addition to our core group of very active responders.


Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator

Most Recent Revision: 24/3/26

Fb Page: Democratic Marxism – Global

(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717)

Fb Group: Democratic Marxist Global Forum

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2045...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARB5MaP7fzlN9ItgmSkMWzv60Rd9mIxsQIkIgIa6_Guh2MGR6mV82GdH-IxgmiiVaJcZ-NLi7Cz46VX0nn78clmPjd-pttzlYPR9dmEubTBnBdnGohd0bl3Fy4k02cb3BVHNVOcfjANvEEUCRw6k1IZDDsZV6l9V1Id5_NomySGWmEpA3Inygttyrt3-jYH1m1M50W3d94tVElUVaZ-SrM-WZ4BkYEj0ZYF5Y5X2d7KRG_MQJtND8fXyDSkU0F1I4FVHkI_eoiyOazUgCRS0lmfetiENOGsaJPb6MfuHzQ92-u7gMI_E8888fus

E-mail:

demmarxglobalin@gmail.com

Snail Mail:

DMGI

P.O. Box 3246,

Meaford, Ontario, Canada

N4L 1A5

Website:

In development



Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) - 2024

[Bob Armstrong]

USA Presidential Election - Tues., Nov. 5, 2024.

Republican Party Candidate (Almost confirmed): Donald Trump (Past President)

[Part II of 2 parts; see Part I above]

B. Civil Court

1. New York - Alleged: Civil Fraud (Falsifying Corporate Documents # 2) - in order to get "ill-gotten gains," Trump issued false financial statements and false business records to inflate the value of his assets.Trump had fraudulently done this to obtain favourable loans and other benefits.

Prosecutor: New York attorney general, Letitia James

Criminal Court Conviction: Judge Arthur F. Engoron - convicted Trump personally of civil fraud: levied a financial penalty and other punishments - Trump personally to pay $ 454 million in disgorgement for "ill-gotten gains." Interest on the penalty is running.

Trump Appealed to the Appeals Court (Monday, March 18): Pause the enforcement of payment of the penalty.

Initial Appeal Court Ruling: Trump must show financial viability by posting a $ 545 million bond (120% of the judgment) to confirm the penalty can be paid, if necessary.

Deadline to Post Bond: Today (Mon., 24/3/25).

Trump's Motion to Appeal Court (Monday, March 18) - that the Bond be reduced to $ 100 million or the condition now be waived by the Appeals Court

Grounds:

1.Trump didn’t have enough cash to cover a bond while he appeals the verdict;

2. Trump would be forced to hold a “fire sale” of his assets to raise cash.

3. Trump has been unable to secure the full $ 545 million bond, despite “diligent efforts.” Those efforts included approaching about 30 companies, and yet, they said, he has encountered “insurmountable difficulties.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/n...d396a4debfd6ce

Appeals Court Decision (Today, Mon., 24/3/25): Bond amount is lowered to $175 million; Trump has10 days to post the reduced bond of $175 million; If he fails to do so, then enforcement by seizure to pay the judgment can proceed.

Consequence (If lowered bond is not filed by the deadline): New York Attorney General Letitia James may begin seizing some of Trump's assets today to finance his obligation to the state. Filings show New York officials are first preparing to try to seize Trump's golf course and private estate north of Manhattan, known as Seven Springs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n=openamericas

2. New York Civil Defamation Judgment - $ 83.3 million damages to be paid by Trump to writer E. Jean Carroll.

Trump Motion - to immediately suspend the verdict and to delay payment.

Ruling: Motion denied.

WTG Republicans! [Oh yes........all the above are just political witch-hunting]

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

[Bob Armstrong]

USA Presidential Election - Tues., Nov. 5, 2024.

Republican Party Candidate (Almost confirmed): Donald Trump (Past President)

[Part I of 2 parts]

Trump's Legal Problems

A. Criminal Court

1. Charge: Insurrection and attempt to overturn the 2020 official election result

Prosecutor: Special Prosecutor, Jack Smith, appointed by Merrick Garland, American lawyer and jurist, who serves as the 86th United States attorney general.

Defence: as to illegal actions that are "official acts" while President, a President has "immunity" from being charged "in perpetuity".

Trial Judgment - Judge Cannon - Trump has no "immunity".

Appeal in the Supreme Court of USA - it will hear Trump's Appeal from the lower court decision that Trump has no "immunity". If upheld, then the criminal trial of Trump will continue.

Recent Brief Filed in SC - "the President cannot function, and the Presidency itself cannot retain its vital independence, if the President faces criminal prosecution for official acts, once he leaves office."

https://www.nysun.com/article/trump-...0%202024-03-19

Prior Filing: "Allowing the special counsel’s case to proceed would inflict on future commanders in chief ‘years of post-office trauma.’ "

Trump - Accusing Jack Smith of ‘Blackmail and Extortion’.

Scheduled SC oral arguments: the week of April 22 - Proceedings in the trial court remain frozen while the USASC considers the appeal.

3. Fulton County, Atlanta, Georgia Charge: “Criminal Enterprise” to Interfere in Georgia Presidential Election Count (to overturn the results of the 2020 election)


Fulton County Superior Judge Scott McAfee Initial Ruling (24/3/13) -

- quashed six of the 41 charges against Donald Trump and his allies in the sprawling Georgia election interference case.

The ruling said charges that Donald Trump and his allies solicited public officials to break the law were not specific enough. Included was the charge related to a call that Mr. Trump made to pressure Georgia’s secretary of state in early January 2021. He left intact the rest of the racketeering indictment, which initially included 41 counts.

Tangential Issue: Fani Willis, Georgia District Attorney - overseeing case against Trump; hired lead "Prosecutor", Nathan Wade - DA "Official" impropriety alleged by Trump lawyers. She cannot continue as DA.

Judgment: Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee - found an appearance of “impropriety,” but wrote that defendants “failed to meet their burden” in proving District Attorney Fani T. Willis’s relationship with lead prosecutor Nathan Wade was enough to merit her removal.
- But he ruled that either the special prosecutor must be terminated, or Ms. Willis must be removed.

Consequence - Nathan Wade Resigned as Prosecutor in Trump Case After Judge’s Conflict of Interest Ruling

Appeal to Georgia Court of Appeals by Trump: Ms. Willis must be removed.
- appeals court will decide whether to review the district attorney’s fate on the case.

https://www.nysun.com/article/judge-...0%202024-03-20

2. Manhattan Criminal Court Charge: Falsifying corporate documents # 1 - 34 counts of falsification of New York business records in an attempt to cover up hush-money payments to Stephanie A. Gregory Clifford, known professionally as Stormy Daniels, an American pornographic film actress, director and former stripper, that could have derailed Trump's stunning victory in the 2016 presidential election. Stephanie claims she had an extramarital affair with Trump, which he vehemently denies.

Prosecutor: New York attorney general, Letitia James

Trial: Monday, Mon., April 15,2024 - will be the first criminal prosecution of a former American president.

New Application by Trump (Today - Mon., 24/3/25) - Judge Juan Manuel Marchan -

1.That he adjourn the criminal trial indefinitely - because the Supreme Court of Canada has an appeal on "Presidential Immunity" re the Jan. 6, 2023 Insurrection allegation. The trial has to await the prior decision of the US Supreme Court.
2. the disclosure of evidence by the prosecution to the defence only recently is prosecutorial misconduct. Judge Merchan must delay the trial 90 days, indefinitely or throw out the case altogether!

Decision on Application (24/3/25) -

Judge Marchan suggested that Mr. Trump’s lawyers were dragging their feet and scolded them for accusing Manhattan prosecutors of misconduct without seeming to substantiate their allegations. For roughly an hour, the judge, Juan M. Merchan, slammed arguments from Mr. Trump’s lawyers that his case should be pushed back any longer because of newly disclosed documents from a related federal investigation. Then there was a 45-minute break.
Judge Merchan then returned to the courtroom, said that no harm had been done to the former president by the delayed disclosure, and confirmed the already set trial date of Mon., April 15, 2024.

Note: - This will be the first criminal prosecution of a former American president.

4. Charge under the Espionage Act (Passed in 1917) - 32 charges of Illegally handling Presidential documents (At his Florida Home, Mar-a-Lago)

Motion to Dismiss Charge: Before Judge Aileen Cannon (24/3/14) - President Trump contended that the Espionage Act under which he is criminally charged is fatally flawed. The Espionage Act is unconstitutional as applied to former presidents.

Note: The argument could lead to the Supreme Court weighing the law under which whistle blowers Daniel Ellsberg, Chelsea Manning, and Edward Snowden were prosecuted, and a communist couple, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, were put to death. This argument, if accepted, could mean the end of the case against Trump.

https://www.nysun.com/article/trump-...0%202024-03-11

[See Part II below]

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Re Post # 251



Me: To blame the economic problems only on Democratic Marxist policies implemented by Allende is to commit the sin of omission.



Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

And to blame Allende's economic debacle only on the USA is even a bigger sin of omission. His DM policies bear the giant's share of blame for the busting of Chile's economy.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re Post # 251

Evaluation of the quality of life, and economy, of Chile: President Salvadore Allende (Unity Government) - 1970-3


1. What effect did Salvador Allende's policies have on Chile's economy?

Under Allende's Popular Unity government, Chile moved quickly to free itself from a situation in which the U.S. owned and controlled 60% of the economy and held the other 40% in dependency. U.S.-owned copper mines, other foreign-owned companies and banks were nationalized.

Chile: The lesson of the overthrow of Salvador Allende

2. The average Real GDP contracted between 1971 and 1973 at an annual rate of 5.6% ("negative growth"), and the government's fiscal deficit soared while foreign reserves declined. During this time, a shortage in basic commodities led to the rise of black markets which ended in late 1973 after Allende was ousted.

Presidency of Salvador Allende - Wikipedia


3. What was happening in Chile before the coup?

Two weeks before the coup, public dissatisfaction with rising prices and food shortages led to protests like the one at the Plaza de la Constitución which had been dispersed with tear gas. Allende also clashed with Chile's largest circulation newspaper, the CIA-funded El Mercurio.

Military dictatorship of Chile - Wikipedia

4. In 2000, the CIA admitted its role in the 1970 kidnapping and killing of René Schneider (then Commander-in-chief of the Chilean Army), who had refused to use the army to stop Allende's inauguration.^[23][24] 2023 declassified documents showed that Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and the United States government, which had branded Allende as a dangerous communist,^[11] were aware of the military's plans to overthrow Allende in the days before the coup d'état.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_C..._d%27%C3%A9tat

Me: To blame the economic problems only on Democratic Marxist policies implemented by Allende is to commit the sin of omission.

The critics deliberately fail to show the illegal actions intended to destroy Allende's government, and him (USA ordered extra-judicial assassination), who in fact were still quite popular. The USA attempt to foment a people's revolution against Allende failed miserably. So the USA-backed General Pinochet just carried out a normal coup by force. Allende himself committed suicide in the Presidential Palace, surrounded by troops coming to capture him, and knowing he would be brutally tortured, with no legal protection.

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)