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  • Pargat Perrer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people.
    Antarctica is covered by an international treaty. No country is allowed to claim even a part of Antarctica for themself. Of course treaties can be violated.


    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    IThe border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it. ...
    This is the philosophy that leads to exactly what I said, increasing population leads to increasing borders. Claim it and defend it ... leads to conflict and wars, both civil and international.



    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    I
    We don't need to limit population growth through force.
    ...
    I agree with this, even though in my last post I said we should now at this point in time limit population growth. Actually, the window has closed. Instead, population growth is henceforth going to be limited by TOTAL .... GLOBAL .... ECONOMIC .... COLLAPSE.

    Anyone with children must now prepare for their children's survival. It That is, if you love your children, in which case prepare to sacrifice yourselves as parents for your children.

    It may happen in slow motion ... but it is underway now.

    Gold at record highs.
    Global trade disintegrating.
    China surpassing USA as top world economy, economic war in progress.
    USA to annex countries by force, including Canada no matter how many times you say "elbows up".

    LOL elbows up .... AK-47s firing .....

    end of civilization as we have known it.
    Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Monday, 7th April, 2025, 03:43 AM.

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  • Bob Armstrong
    replied
    Antarctica

    Does it hold secrets (Beyond who may claim to own it)?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upxe03w75Qo

    Bob A

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  • Tom O'Donnell
    replied
    I believe parts of Antarctica have been claimed by various countries, though eyeballing the map on the site below it appears that there are unclaimed parts. Perhaps there are also some tiny islands in the middle of nowhere that are unclaimed. I suspect that if there were easy to extract resources / sudden strategic value these places would not be unclaimed for long.

    I think of Antarctica like Mars. Inhospitable.

    Territorial claims in Antarctica - Wikipedia
    Last edited by Tom O'Donnell; Saturday, 5th April, 2025, 03:38 PM.

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  • Dilip Panjwani
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.

    Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.

    When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.
    I think the entire continent of Antarctica is not claimed by any country

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  • Tom O'Donnell
    replied
    I cannot think of a piece of land on Earth which has not been claimed by at least one country. This includes places that have no people. The border people have won the battle of ideas in practice, for good or bad. Land has been claimed and it must be defended from criminal invaders. You claim it and defend it or you will inevitably lose it to someone else who wants it.

    Population in all places except Africa are already stable/declining. We don't need to limit population growth through force.

    When two or more countries make it to Mars and they have colonies there, there will probably be borders, especially with limited resources.

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  • Pargat Perrer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    The original inhabitants of North America did not secure their borders. So yes, they let criminal invaders into their lands and had no way to evict them. I thought learning from history was one of the reasons to study it. So that we don't make the mistakes that the people before us made.

    Securing borders is one of the primary tasks of national governments. Otherwise, Russia invades Ukraine. Or, as speculated on this site by others, US invades Canada. If borders are unimportant, why care about such things?
    True, the original inhabitants of North America probably didn't even think of the concept of "borders" because thee was so much land, so few people.

    What seems to happen is that as population grows, the number of borders grow with it. The world today probably has more countries than ever before, and still many areas want to separate even further.

    I think we can say population growth leads to increasing fragmentation (borders) leads to increasing conflict (wars).

    I don't think the lesson from history is that the original natives of North America should have secured borders (that they didn't have). Rather i think it is that we should now at this point in time LIMIT population growth in order to limit fragmentation in order to limit conflict. We have to deal with the limits of planet Earth.

    Musk wants us to go to Mars. RIght now there are no borders on Mars. How long will it be before there are borders on Mars?



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  • Bob Armstrong
    replied
    The original inhabitants had no border concept......land was the gift of the Great Spirit to provide food for them to hunt.

    Click image for larger version

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    It is true that encroachment on the "hunting territory" of another tribe caused conflict.....but this was a fight over food, not land.

    Certain consequences follow from this "life view".

    Bob A

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  • Tom O'Donnell
    replied
    The original inhabitants of North America did not secure their borders. So yes, they let criminal invaders into their lands and had no way to evict them. I thought learning from history was one of the reasons to study it. So that we don't make the mistakes that the people before us made.

    Securing borders is one of the primary tasks of national governments. Otherwise, Russia invades Ukraine. Or, as speculated on this site by others, US invades Canada. If borders are unimportant, why care about such things?

    Some of the most worrying trends are in non-Western, but still First-World countries, for example South Korea, Singapore, and Japan. These are high-IQ societies and it would be tragic for the planet to have their numbers decreasing.

    Agreed about increasing wealth decreasing the fertility rate. I am sure I have read the same. But I suspect culture also plays a factor and so do incentives.

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  • Pargat Perrer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    The 2030 projection I assume includes the criminal invaders that the Trump administration is trying mightily to boot out. That should adjust that number down somewhat.
    "Criminal invaders" .... totally ignoring the "criminal natives" .... and by the way, who were the original "criminal invaders" of North America?



    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    Consider that the native population is breeding at significantly less than the 2.1 children per woman needed for replacement. In the US it is roughly 1.7; Canada 1.5. Without legal immigration, the population of most Western nations would be dropping. The propaganda that somehow Western folks are responsible for some sort of population explosion is ridiculous.
    Well, I don't know who is blaming it on "Western folks" ... but it seems you are saying that if only we just had "western folks" in the world, everything would be fine.

    I don't think population trends depend on race or nationality, but rather on economics. If "Western folks" are not growing their numbers as much as others, it is because they are much wealthier than others. I believe it is a proven fact that increasing overall wealth leads to decreasing population growth. I am sure I saw stats to prove that, but I can't remember where I saw it.


    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    Note the countries with fertility rates of 4+ are almost all African nations.

    List of countries by total fertility rate - Wikipedia
    I wonder what were the fertility rates in North America in the 1600s, the 1700s, the 1800s ....among "Western folks" .... again, increasing wealth leads to decreasing population growth. Africa is very poor. They are where North America was in the past centuries aforementioned.

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  • Bob Armstrong
    replied

    Americas - Canada

    Federal Election: Monday, April 28, 2025 (Less than 1 month away!)

    "The one issue that could flip the advantage back to Poilievre!

    The latest polling data suggests that Canadians believe Mark Carney

    Click image for larger version  Name:	CarneyMark2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	13.1 KB ID:	241551

    would do a better job than Pierre Poilievre at going toe-to-toe with Donald Trump.

    However, the majority of Canadians still view the cost of living as the federal election’s number one issue, Mark Ramzy reports."

    The Toronto Star - First Up Newsletter - By Andrew Joe Potter - 25/3/29

    Bob A (Democratic Marxist)



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  • Bob Armstrong
    replied
    World Population

    The peak world population is about to happen (Now a number of articles on this).

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    Then the world population will start to DECLINE as a whole!

    We will have a whole new world paradigm out of which to work!

    Bob A

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  • Tom O'Donnell
    replied
    The 2030 projection I assume includes the criminal invaders that the Trump administration is trying mightily to boot out. That should adjust that number down somewhat. Consider that the native population is breeding at significantly less than the 2.1 children per woman needed for replacement. In the US it is roughly 1.7; Canada 1.5. Without legal immigration, the population of most Western nations would be dropping. The propaganda that somehow Western folks are responsible for some sort of population explosion is ridiculous.

    Note the countries with fertility rates of 4+ are almost all African nations.

    List of countries by total fertility rate - Wikipedia
    Last edited by Tom O'Donnell; Saturday, 29th March, 2025, 08:40 AM.

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  • Dilip Panjwani
    replied
    Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

    Oh really? Even Libertarian politicians are willing to do "the wrong thing"?
    Truly Libertarian politicians will not have the power to do significant wrong...

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  • Pargat Perrer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
    List of countries by past and projected future population - Wikipedia

    Note that world population would be roughly stable over the next 75 years if you exclude Africa, where population is expected to almost triple.

    I looked at it and North America is not "roughly stable" in future projections. Between 2030 and 2050 projected 28 million increase. That was the population of Canada just a few decades ago.

    As far as Africa is concerned, maybe the shutdown of USAID is aimed at stopping that growth. But then I heard that China is stepping in where the USA is withdrawing, making Africa exploitable by China in a big way.

    I wish that article had grouped Europe in one lump some like they did for North America.

    I noticed that Georgia (not the U.S. state but the sovereign country bordering Russia) has a dramatic projected population DECLINE. I wonder what's going on there???

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  • Pargat Perrer
    replied
    Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
    PeePee, I have always maintained that all politicians would be willing to do the 'wrong' thing, if it fetches them lots of votes... the sad aspect of giving politicians unnecessary power.
    Oh really? Even Libertarian politicians are willing to do "the wrong thing"?

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