FIDE Election for President

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Many members here recall a spirited discussion I had on the old Ottawa Chess Club forums regarding Kirsan's holding a chess tournament in Libya when Ghadaffi was in charge that restricted Israeli players from playing. So, i have no idea what answer you are referring to. What consequences are you talking about if Kirsan won??

Loss of zone status, loss of arbiter assignments, increased scrutiny and obstruction of player and arbiter titles are things that might be forseen. I don't think that these would result from Kirsan himself as everything that I have heard from people who are close to him or people who know people who are close to him is that he is not one to operate in that manner. Some of those around him on the other hand....

Last time the CFC openly supported Karpov and the CFC did not suffer any consequences.

Which makes it difficult to reconcile this fact with the view that you seem to be promoting that Kirsan is evil. Evil has a way of settling scores.

Of course I was assured that Canada did indeed vote the way they said they did for Karpov last time although I have heard several reports to the contrary from sources that I suspect know the truth.

This is a recurring theme among the Kasparov supporters who have contacted us and sought to influence our vote. This attempt to drive a wedge between Hal Bond and either myself or perhaps the executive seems to me simply an attempt to execute the strategy that Musashi refers to as "injuring the corners." Hal is effective as a FIDE rep. He gets plum assignments as an arbiter because he is an extremely competent arbiter. He manages to get things done at FIDE when things go off the rails for us which they often do with an organization such as FIDE. In seven years of observing Hal and attending his tournaments and interacting with Hal at the CFC over the last three years he has always shown himself to be a conscientious and honest dealer in every matter where I have interacted with him. You have heard several reports from people who are talking to each other and purport to know what transpired on a secret ballot. It is hard for me to understand what outcome these people are seeking. History is full of examples of loyal generals or advisers to leaders being brought down as disloyal without any truth to the charges simply as a way to remove political rivals or eventually remove a leader by removing his support system.

Of course perhaps it is simply an attempt to remove a perceived obstacle and not an attempt to gut the CFC leadership which would be the result I am afraid.

Absolutely true Erik. I am the business sponsor you are referring to. The fact that Kirsan has zero votes in this poll should have an influence on the executive vote. The fact that I would be interested in getting involved with Canadian Chess sponsorship again if FIDE had a credible leadership that in turn would bring in credible business sponsors should also have an influence.

So if Kasparov wins, which we admittedly have little influence on then you would be interested in Canadian Chess sponsorship again. Our current sponsor has a different opinion than you do so it is still possible to find individuals in the business community who will support Canadian chess regardless who is in charge at FIDE.

I am surprised that so far it has proven to be far from an easy decision for the CFC executive.

“ We must bear in mind, then, that there is nothing more difficult and dangerous, or more doubtful of success, than an attempt to introduce a new order of things. For the innovator has for enemies all those who derived advantages from the old order of things, whilst those who expect to be benefited by the new institutions will be but lukewarm defenders. This indifference arises in part from fear of their adversaries who were favoured by the existing laws, and partly from the incredulity of men who have no faith in anything new that is not the result of well-established experience. Hence it is that, whenever the opponents of the new order of things have the opportunity to attack it, they will do it with the zeal of partisans, whilst the others defend it but feebly, so that it is dangerous to rely upon the latter.” - Niccolò Machiavelli’s The Prince

The fact that Kirsan was directly appointed by Vladimir Putin when he was governor of Kalmykia should also have an influence, to any one that know's the difference between right and wrong, between good and evil.

Kirsan was also removed by Vladimir Putin as governor of Kalmykia. Putin is no doubt amoral and certainly was head of the KGB where no one expects to find a boy scout. This attempt to closely link Kirsan with Putin is asking us to willingly subscribe to a logical fallacy and at times your rhetoric in this skates perilously close to Godwin's Law. Putin is not running for FIDE president and if he was and the alternative were Garry then Garry would win by an overwhelming majority. Unfortunately our choice is not so easy.

I take the choice between right and wrong and good and evil very seriously, so seriously that I feel a need to ignore the magician's trick of redirecting our attention to Putin and actually look at the two choices that we actually have, being Kirsan and Gary.

What is evil? Evil is self serving, manipulative, vindictive, exhibits fits of temper, exalts itself. Evil persuades us that the ends justify the means. Evil appears to us as shiny and beautiful thing which we associate with good. How can we tell if something is good or evil? By the fruit, by the actions, by the outcomes that the person or group has previously shown and generated. I ask about the things that concern me and the best response I got was that they had not seen such actions and in any case there was a level of maturity now that would prevent such actions plus there will be a board of responsible individuals to reign in these tendencies if there is a temptation to exhibit them. The most concerning to me is the situation of Salov and the attempt to persuade organizers not to invite him to tournaments on penalty of boycott by Gary. There are reports from Spassky, Karpov and others which reveal someone with a temper and a tendency to fly off the handle and isolate former friends and allies. Sometimes they bury their differences after many years as in the case of Seirawan but some of these former allies remain banished. There is a pattern, a history which points in one direction. There are too many traces of that history for it to be washed away. Too many quotes of Gary in mainstream publications like New In Chess, Inside Chess, Chessbase and so on to just ignore it all.

If the CFC endorses Kirsan it will be a day of shame for chess in Canada and will not reflect well for Canada in the larger world either.

It seems to me that the voters here know what is good for chess in Canada and I would be willing to bet that a larger poll of all CFC members would have a very similar result. So who's interest is the executive protecting if it is not those that participate and enjoy this game much? Is the CFC now going to deteriorate from incompetence to not caring about what it's members want or what sponsors would support?

For the rank and file it does not matter who we vote for nor who wins as FIDE issues are far from their main concerns. They want us to maintain the rating system, make sure that when they have concerns they are listened to and get addressed and that the CFC is generally responsive and delivers the services that are expected of them.

Looking at the situation objectively we have a man who has given millions of dollars and raised millions of dollars for chess in Kirsan. On the other hand we have a chess icon and hero to millions on the other side but there are feet of clay on our idol.

I find it interesting that we are told the poll is one step in the consultive process but not necessarily a decisive factor. Vladimir Putin and his cronies are making themselves good candidates as potential indictees in the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity. Need I say more?

Yes you do if you want to persuade anyone who wants to be persuaded by logic and is not swayed by discredited logical fallacies.

One person familiar with living in communist countries on being told of this situation and the alien abduction suggested that maybe Kirsan is not crazy and just is using that as a smokescreen to save himself from a future purge. If he is perceived as crazy then he is less likely to face execution when he is inevitably perceived as a threat to the great and illustrious leader. This subterfuge has been used in the past to escape an unfortunate fate. I'm not sure that this is the case here but it is one possible alternative explanation.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Loss of zone status, loss of arbiter assignments, increased scrutiny and obstruction of player and arbiter titles are things that might be forseen. I don't think that these would result from Kirsan himself as everything that I have heard from people who are close to him or people who know people who are close to him is that he is not one to operate in that manner. Some of those around him on the other hand....


Vlad thank you for taking the time to reply. THere is a huge amount of documentation about journalists and others critical of Krisan that were murdered in Kamylkia, while Kirsan was governor in Kamylkia. You can start by reading articles about him in such respected publications as THe New Yorker.http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all

Which makes it difficult to reconcile this fact with the view that you seem to be promoting that Kirsan is evil. Evil has a way of settling scores.



This is a recurring theme among the Kasparov supporters who have contacted us and sought to influence our vote. This attempt to drive a wedge between Hal Bond and either myself or perhaps the executive seems to me simply an attempt to execute the strategy that Musashi refers to as "injuring the corners." Hal is effective as a FIDE rep. He gets plum assignments as an arbiter because he is an extremely competent arbiter. He manages to get things done at FIDE when things go off the rails for us which they often do with an organization such as FIDE. In seven years of observing Hal and attending his tournaments and interacting with Hal at the CFC over the last three years he has always shown himself to be a conscientious and honest dealer in every matter where I have interacted with him. You have heard several reports from people who are talking to each other and purport to know what transpired on a secret ballot. It is hard for me to understand what outcome these people are seeking. History is full of examples of loyal generals or advisers to leaders being brought down as disloyal without any truth to the charges simply as a way to remove political rivals or eventually remove a leader by removing his support system.

Of course perhaps it is simply an attempt to remove a perceived obstacle and not an attempt to gut the CFC leadership which would be the result I am afraid.



So if Kasparov wins, which we admittedly have little influence on then you would be interested in Canadian Chess sponsorship again. Our current sponsor has a different opinion than you do so it is still possible to find individuals in the business community who will support Canadian chess regardless who is in charge at FIDE.



“ We must bear in mind, then, that there is nothing more difficult and dangerous, or more doubtful of success, than an attempt to introduce a new order of things. For the innovator has for enemies all those who derived advantages from the old order of things, whilst those who expect to be benefited by the new institutions will be but lukewarm defenders. This indifference arises in part from fear of their adversaries who were favoured by the existing laws, and partly from the incredulity of men who have no faith in anything new that is not the result of well-established experience. Hence it is that, whenever the opponents of the new order of things have the opportunity to attack it, they will do it with the zeal of partisans, whilst the others defend it but feebly, so that it is dangerous to rely upon the latter.” - Niccolò Machiavelli’s The Prince



Kirsan was also removed by Vladimir Putin as governor of Kalmykia. Putin is no doubt amoral and certainly was head of the KGB where no one expects to find a boy scout. This attempt to closely link Kirsan with Putin is asking us to willingly subscribe to a logical fallacy and at times your rhetoric in this skates perilously close to Godwin's Law. Putin is not running for FIDE president and if he was and the alternative were Garry then Garry would win by an overwhelming majority. Unfortunately our choice is not so easy.

I take the choice between right and wrong and good and evil very seriously, so seriously that I feel a need to ignore the magician's trick of redirecting our attention to Putin and actually look at the two choices that we actually have, being Kirsan and Gary.

What is evil? Evil is self serving, manipulative, vindictive, exhibits fits of temper, exalts itself. Evil persuades us that the ends justify the means. Evil appears to us as shiny and beautiful thing which we associate with good. How can we tell if something is good or evil? By the fruit, by the actions, by the outcomes that the person or group has previously shown and generated. I ask about the things that concern me and the best response I got was that they had not seen such actions and in any case there was a level of maturity now that would prevent such actions plus there will be a board of responsible individuals to reign in these tendencies if there is a temptation to exhibit them. The most concerning to me is the situation of Salov and the attempt to persuade organizers not to invite him to tournaments on penalty of boycott by Gary. There are reports from Spassky, Karpov and others which reveal someone with a temper and a tendency to fly off the handle and isolate former friends and allies. Sometimes they bury their differences after many years as in the case of Seirawan but some of these former allies remain banished. There is a pattern, a history which points in one direction. There are too many traces of that history for it to be washed away. Too many quotes of Gary in mainstream publications like New In Chess, Inside Chess, Chessbase and so on to just ignore it all.



For the rank and file it does not matter who we vote for nor who wins as FIDE issues are far from their main concerns. They want us to maintain the rating system, make sure that when they have concerns they are listened to and get addressed and that the CFC is generally responsive and delivers the services that are expected of them.

Looking at the situation objectively we have a man who has given millions of dollars and raised millions of dollars for chess in Kirsan. On the other hand we have a chess icon and hero to millions on the other side but there are feet of clay on our idol.



Yes you do if you want to persuade anyone who wants to be persuaded by logic and is not swayed by discredited logical fallacies.

One person familiar with living in communist countries on being told of this situation and the alien abduction suggested that maybe Kirsan is not crazy and just is using that as a smokescreen to save himself from a future purge. If he is perceived as crazy then he is less likely to face execution when he is inevitably perceived as a threat to the great and illustrious leader. This subterfuge has been used in the past to escape an unfortunate fate. I'm not sure that this is the case here but it is one possible alternative explanation.

Vlad thank you for taking the time to reply. THere is a huge amount of documentation about journalists and others critical of Krisan that were murdered in Kamylkia, while Kirsan was governor in Kamylkia. You can start by reading articles about him in such respected publications as THe New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all
While his fellow citizens in Kamylkia starved Kirsan spent millions of dollars on a chess palace. He is an agent and close friend of Putin and the fact that another governor was selected in his region has not changed this. Incidentally Putins law that he can "coronate" governors is another one of his acts of dictatorship that Kirsan benefited from albeit he was not governor permanently but "legally" even Putin himself had to take a back seat as prime minister for a period of time.

Because Canada did not suffer for openly supporting Karpov does not automatically make Kirsan a good person. You continually talk about "logical fallacies" and this is one of several in your reply.

You have made no effort to refute my assertion that you do not consider the preferences of the CFC membership as a decisive factor or even the poll here that you yourself put up. Chess has suffered by a lack of corporate sponsorship world wide compared to many other sports in a large part because of the reputation of the likes of Kirsan who even yourself have to consider far fetched excuses to rationalize his shortcomings. The rest of the world outside of chess does not buy these far fetched scenarios.

You want to call me illogical for suggesting that you consider listening to your own membership. Vlad, you insult me for offering to support Canadian Chess? I put my money where my mouth is many times over the years and the only thing you have to offer here are glib replies? How dare you! If the president of the USCF who supports Gary can't persuade you, your own membership can't persuade you, and my offers to support Canadian Chess can't persuade then i really don't have anything else to say.

[Vlad Dobrich]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Well said, Sid!

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

If the president of the USCF who supports Gary can't persuade you, your own membership can't persuade you, and my offers to support Canadian Chess can't persuade then i really don't have anything else to say.

From what I've seen in correspondence chess, where Canada is in a zone with the U.S. and some other nations, the Americans look after the Americans. What's left is crumbs.

With the Americans supporting Garry it should almost ensure he will not win.

However distasteful the executive finds the candidates, they should do what is necessary to ensure Canada maintains Zone status and as much international and title opportunities for the members as it is possible to do.

I voted for none of the above in that poll. I'm also not a member which is a measure of the value of the poll on a neutral message board.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

From what I've seen in correspondence chess, where Canada is in a zone with the U.S. and some other nations, the Americans look after the Americans. What's left is crumbs.

With the Americans supporting Garry it should almost ensure he will not win.

However distasteful the executive finds the candidates, they should do what is necessary to ensure Canada maintains Zone status and as much international and title opportunities for the members as it is possible to do.

I voted for none of the above in that poll. I'm also not a member which is a measure of the value of the poll on a neutral message board.

Gary, you are clearly in the minority in this poll. Your assertion about America's support of Gary ensuring that he will not win is unsubstantiated nonsense.
Gary's campaign has been going very well as he visits countries from around the world and he has been a huge help in promoting chess in schools in many of these countries through his charitable foundation.
Fide in its history has never retaliated against a country depending on which way they voted including in the last election where Canada supported Karpov.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Gary, you are clearly in the minority in this poll. Your assertion about America's support of Gary ensuring that he will not win is unsubstantiated nonsense.
Gary's campaign has been going very well as he visits countries from around the world and he has been a huge help in promoting chess in schools in many of these countries through is charitable foundation.
Fide in its history has never retaliated against a country depending on which way they voted including in the last election where Canada supported Karpov.

We'll soon see. Like in chess, winning in chess politics is everything.

I never assume the past predicts the future. Yet you're telling me the history of FIDE of not retaliating and presumably projecting that to the future.

The CFC should do what's best for Canadian Chess and the players and let the Americans look after themselves. Something they are quite good at doing without our help. I don't know what's in it for the Americans but the CFC should figure out what's in it for themselves for supporting one candidate over another.

National federations, like nations, don't have friends. They have interests. Something Vlad seems to understand.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

We'll soon see. Like in chess, winning in chess politics is everything.

I never assume the past predicts the future. Yet you're telling me the history of FIDE of not retaliating and presumably projecting that to the future.

The CFC should do what's best for Canadian Chess and the players and let the Americans look after themselves. Something they are quite good at doing without our help. I don't know what's in it for the Americans but the CFC should figure out what's in it for themselves for supporting one candidate over another.

National federations, like nations, don't have friends. They have interests. Something Vlad seems to understand.

Yes and you can rest assured what's best for Canadian Chess is that the CFC supports Gary Kasparov. I have seen no evidence at all that Vlad understands that, unless you consider alienating sponsors of the game in Canada as something that is good for Canadian Chess. The CFC is the ONLY federation among most civilized democratic nations that did not make an endorsement to Garry yet. I find that disgusting. Do you really believe that FIDE will sanction all those countries that did not support Kirsan in the far from certain eventuality that he wins????
On the other hand if Gary wins I am highly confident that I can get Fide's support in addition to my own in all kinds of interesting programs for Canada. That is of course predicated on the idea that the CFC endorses Gary that already is getting too late.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Just the very idea that you would even think of :

Loss of zone status, loss of arbiter assignments, increased scrutiny and obstruction of player and arbiter titles are things that might be forseen. I don't think that these would result from Kirsan himself as everything that I have heard from people who are close to him or people who know people who are close to him is that he is not one to operate in that manner. Some of those around him on the other hand....

as vindictive possibilities for failure to vote the right way should tell you what the moral choice is.

I can understand why one might not be happy with Kasparov as a candidate and have doubts as to his ability to govern properly. But, to my mind, it's not really a choice.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Vlad thank you for taking the time to reply. THere is a huge amount of documentation about journalists and others critical of Krisan that were murdered in Kamylkia, while Kirsan was governor in Kamylkia. You can start by reading articles about him in such respected publications as THe New Yorker.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...urrentPage=all

Interesting article. A little over eight years old and two FIDE elections have passed in the interim. The reliance on astrologers concerns me as the pronouncements on George Bush as Ghenghis Khan probably concerned the New Yorker. The first mention of aliens but with no indication that he claimed to have visited with them. Thank you for sharing that.

While his fellow citizens in Kamylkia starved Kirsan spent millions of dollars on a chess palace.

While there were indications of starvation and forced migrations in the past under Stalin I did not see any mention of starving people in that article.

He is an agent and close friend of Putin and the fact that another governor was selected in his region has not changed this. Incidentally Putins law that he can "coronate" governors is another one of his acts of dictatorship that Kirsan benefited from albeit he was not governor permanently but "legally" even Putin himself had to take a back seat as prime minister for a period of time.

And Putin was a close friend of the Obama administration until his adventures in the Ukraine. I get it. He is not a good man.

Because Canada did not suffer for openly supporting Karpov does not automatically make Kirsan a good person.

No of course not.

You continually talk about "logical fallacies" and this is one of several in your reply.

You have made no effort to refute my assertion that you do not consider the preferences of the CFC membership as a decisive factor or even the poll here that you yourself put up.

I am elected to represent the best interests of the CFC members. I take that responsibility seriously. I have talked to more CFC members than have voted in this admittedly unscientific poll. I have also talked many parents of CFC members. This poll and the resulting discussion have revealed to me what certain specific members and non-members believe. This was what I put up the poll to uncover. In addition to the one on one discussions in person and in email I have talked to a number of Gary supporters including people who are involved in his campaign, including you. I have not talked to anyone from Kirsan's campaign.

Chess has suffered by a lack of corporate sponsorship world wide compared to many other sports in a large part because of the reputation of the likes of Kirsan who even yourself have to consider far fetched excuses to rationalize his shortcomings. The rest of the world outside of chess does not buy these far fetched scenarios.

That article was in the run up to the Kok election which Kirsan won. Later he defeated Karpov. Chess is a tough sell to corporate sponsors when they can use chess as a prop for free. I think we have had more luck with governments.

You want to call me illogical for suggesting that you consider listening to your own membership.

Your argument equating Putin (the accomplished hockey player who just scored six goals against professional Russian players in an exhibition game) with Kirsan is what I called illogical. I am not trying to insult you. I am much more rude when I am trying to insult people.

I have been listening to my own membership. The ones who I have talked to have not been telling me the same thing that you have been telling me. I do understand that you are used to getting your way. I have a thick skin and do not take offense easily.

Vlad, you insult me for offering to support Canadian Chess?

I don't think so but if there is some novel definition of insult that I am not familiar with I suppose it is possible. If so I am sorry for insulting you unintentionally. So far what I have seen on offer is that you might support Canadian chess again IF Gary wins the FIDE election. Lets assign probabilities. Lets say that in the event that Gary wins there is a ninety five percent probability that you will support Canadian chess. Now I have to look at the other product side of the equation and assign a probability to Gary winning. This is where we are running into a problem.

I put my money where my mouth is many times over the years and the only thing you have to offer here are glib replies? How dare you!

You do always get your way, don't you? I am sorry if I am approaching this conversation as if I am someone who has a right to an opinion and has to represent the best interests of the CFC and its members. I'm sorry if not accepting your commands is somehow insulting to you. My suggestion is that you leave the persuasion end of things to people who are not so easily insulted.

If the president of the USCF who supports Gary can't persuade you, your own membership can't persuade you, and my offers to support Canadian Chess can't persuade then i really don't have anything else to say.

Someday the irony in all of this situation will come out.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

clap clap.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Interesting article. A little over eight years old and two FIDE elections have passed in the interim. The reliance on astrologers concerns me as the pronouncements on George Bush as Ghenghis Khan probably concerned the New Yorker. The first mention of aliens but with no indication that he claimed to have visited with them. Thank you for sharing that.



While there were indications of starvation and forced migrations in the past under Stalin I did not see any mention of starving people in that article.



And Putin was a close friend of the Obama administration until his adventures in the Ukraine. I get it. He is not a good man.



No of course not.



I am elected to represent the best interests of the CFC members. I take that responsibility seriously. I have talked to more CFC members than have voted in this admittedly unscientific poll. I have also talked many parents of CFC members. This poll and the resulting discussion have revealed to me what certain specific members and non-members believe. This was what I put up the poll to uncover. In addition to the one on one discussions in person and in email I have talked to a number of Gary supporters including people who are involved in his campaign, including you. I have not talked to anyone from Kirsan's campaign.



That article was in the run up to the Kok election which Kirsan won. Later he defeated Karpov. Chess is a tough sell to corporate sponsors when they can use chess as a prop for free. I think we have had more luck with governments.



Your argument equating Putin (the accomplished hockey player who just scored six goals against professional Russian players in an exhibition game) with Kirsan is what I called illogical. I am not trying to insult you. I am much more rude when I am trying to insult people.

I have been listening to my own membership. The ones who I have talked to have not been telling me the same thing that you have been telling me. I do understand that you are used to getting your way. I have a thick skin and do not take offense easily.



I don't think so but if there is some novel definition of insult that I am not familiar with I suppose it is possible. If so I am sorry for insulting you unintentionally. So far what I have seen on offer is that you might support Canadian chess again IF Gary wins the FIDE election. Lets assign probabilities. Lets say that in the event that Gary wins there is a ninety five percent probability that you will support Canadian chess. Now I have to look at the other product side of the equation and assign a probability to Gary winning. This is where we are running into a problem.



You do always get your way, don't you? I am sorry if I am approaching this conversation as if I am someone who has a right to an opinion and has to represent the best interests of the CFC and its members. I'm sorry if not accepting your commands is somehow insulting to you. My suggestion is that you leave the persuasion end of things to people who are not so easily insulted.



Someday the irony in all of this situation will come out.

By the way as much as you like and trust Hal Bond like it or not he receives payments from FIDE for his work as an arbiter and as such he is conflicted out from being the person who actually casts the vote at the FIDE meeting.
Did you know that the Russian consulates and embassies around the world help Kirsan with his campaign by arranging meetings and introducing him to executives of chess federations? My point is that Kirsan continues to work very closely with the Russian government.
One thing I have learned in life Vlad is that when i run in to people that THINK they are smarter then everyone else usually the opposite is true. The only irony I will ever see is if you end up endorsing Gary. I am not holding my breath.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

By the way as much as you like and trust Hal Bond like it or not he receives payments from FIDE for his work as an arbiter and as such he is conflicted out from being the person who actually casts the vote at the FIDE meeting.

Conflicted out how and under which law? Is it your contention that no arbiter can be our FIDE rep?

Did you know that the Russian consulates and embassies around the world help Kirsan with his campaign by arranging meetings and introducing him to executives of chess federations?

I don't know anyone associated with the Russian consulate or embassy so how could they facilitate or arrange meetings or introductions to the CFC which is quite decentralized in any case.

My point is that Kirsan continues to work very closely with the Russian government.

I will keep that in mind.

One thing I have learned in life Vlad is that when i run in to people that THINK they are smarter then everyone else usually the opposite is true.

I will have to agree with you on that. I've met the self-professed smartest man in Windsor. Being the dumb bumpkin that I am, I'm not sure what that agreement with your statement is worth.

The only irony I will ever see is if you end up endorsing Gary. I am not holding my breath.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Conflicted out how and under which law? Is it your contention that no arbiter can be our FIDE rep?




I don't know anyone associated with the Russian consulate or embassy so how could they facilitate or arrange meetings or introductions to the CFC which is quite decentralized in any case.



I will keep that in mind.



I will have to agree with you on that. I've met the self-professed smartest man in Windsor. Being the dumb bumpkin that I am, I'm not sure what that agreement with your statement is worth.

The issue is not arbiters but someone who is receiving payments from FIDE. Under incoporated Not For profit organizations the laws are very clear.
http://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsule...rest-directors
i am not sure about the legal structure of the CFC thus the link may not apply. In any event, even if you find legal outs the optics are very poor and will not serve the CFC well in something that likely will become a very public dispute.

[Andy Shaw]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

Wait........... the CFC is supporting Kirsan??? Did I understand this thread correctly....

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Endorsemeent over Vote: FIDE Election for President

The issue is not arbiters but someone who is receiving payments from FIDE. Under incoporated Not For profit organizations the laws are very clear.
http://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsule...rest-directors

From your link:

Important !
This article explains in a general way the law that applies in Quebec. This article is not a legal opinion or legal advice. To find out the specific rules for your situation, consult a lawyer or notary.

Can a director be given permission to act in the interests of a person or group outside the organization?

Yes, in some special situations, an organization can let directors officially act in the interests of another person or group. The organization can include this permission in its by-laws, and include a description of situations in which directors can act as representatives of a particular person or group.

From the CFC bylaw:

FIDE REPRESENTATIVE

8F. The FIDE (Federation Internationale des Echecs) Representative shall be an officer of the corporation and a member of the Executive, and shall:

i) be the official liason between the Chess Federation of Canada and FIDE;

ii) be the FIDE Zone President for Canada;

iii) deal with matters relating to the FIDE Americas Continent;

iv) if funding is available, at minimum, attend the annual FIDE Congresses;

v) work with the Public Relations Coordinator in dealing with mainstream media on chess promotion as it relates to FIDE issues. [see Motion 2010-16]

It seems to me that you are alleging a conflict within FIDE and not within the CFC and that it would apply to almost every delegate to the FIDE general assembly. Just in case anyone is unclear I have asked Hal to disclose to the executive the exact nature of his relationship to FIDE as an arbiter just in case there is any member of the board who is unaware of this relationship.

It seems to me that by the time we arrive at the FIDE election the CFC will be governed under the new NFP act and its rules with respect to what constitutes a conflict of interest.

i am not sure about the legal structure of the CFC thus the link may not apply. In any event, even if you find legal outs the optics are very poor and will not serve the CFC well in something that likely will become a very public dispute.

I would say this is a very public dispute already. Just make sure you spell my name right.