If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
Rene, you keep quoting an old rule which is no longer in force and asking why it was not enforced. I have given you the new rule as of 2012 which is in force. I don't know how many more ways we can change the arrangement of the deck chairs but the ship will sail on. I simply don't have any more time to spend on this while the CYCC is going on.
My questions are:
1. How is Sam Song an exceptional player if he is rated 13th in his age group?
2. Why was he preregistered in the U16 and then allowed to play in the U18 without any announcement? The U18 players found out about this after the 1st round pairings were posted.
3. Is CFC going to pay for his WYCC trip if he comes 1st or if he comes 2nd and the winner declines to go?
I think he realized he has better chances to qualifies to WYCC if he plays in the U18 (only IM Richard Wang is better rated than him) and switched from U16 to U18 in the last moment. Whoever allowed him to play up did a mistake and insulted all U16 players who are playing tough games to qualify to WYCC.
Don't forget players finishing in 1-3 places become official representatives for different tournaments - WYCC, Pan-Am, NA.
I did not proceed with a motion - mainly it was (and still is) not clear how a new CFC legal status and paper work effect the Handbook and all its chapters.
Rene, you keep quoting an old rule which is no longer in force and asking why it was not enforced. I have given you the new rule as of 2012 which is in force. I don't know how many more ways we can change the arrangement of the deck chairs but the ship will sail on. I simply don't have any more time to spend on this while the CYCC is going on.
Vlad,
We're not having a dialog here. Until you're able to show me that motion and the conditions for playing up I'll refer to the only motion I have.
I also asked you some questions and you're not answering them. One was: Did the organizers went to his parents and asked them if they want to register him in the U18 or the other way?
Last edited by Rene Preotu; Wednesday, 8th July, 2015, 05:54 PM.
I did not proceed with a motion - mainly it was (and still is) not clear how a new CFC legal status and paper work effect the Handbook and all its chapters.
From the second thread:
Last time this topic was debated couple of years ago (initiated by Bob Armstrong). Bob also was planning to make a motion at that time, but after a long discussion decided not to do so.
The opinion of the majority at that discussion was:
1. Only strong players (rating might be a criteria) should be allowed to play up, otherwise the pairings in the older section(s) may affect the final results significantly.
2. If a strong player decides to play up at CYCC, he/she must play at the same older section at WYCC, and cannot pretend on the younger's section bursary. The only exemption could be for the players with FIDE special rights, but they still should not receive CFC's bursary, if they'll decide to play at WYCC at their original section.
I don't follow youth tournament that much, but when I was seeing that the strongest players could be in the U14 or U16 and not necessarily in the U18. Or when I saw a guy rated significantly higher than his group but still playing in it... It gave me the impression that the age based restrictions were mandatory and that a kid had to play in his section.
Now, if FIDE isn't enforcing that kind of rule, neither should we. But this need to be stated clearly. Otherwise we get into the situation described above.
And yes, I also think U18 should be taken literally. If you fit the criteria, you can play. Our best players won't develop as much as they could if we force them to play in a section that is too weak for them.
I guess I would ask what event So played in to "qualify" for the CYCC. If he played in the U16 section of a tournament such as the OYCC then he did not qualify for the U18 section of the CYCC. If, instead, he qualified by rating then in my opinion he can play in any section where his rating fits. Of course there always seems to be a myriad of rule changes and unrecorded precedent setting decisions in youth chess so my simple logic may not apply.
There are no qualifiers in NB (or PEI where I live). There simply aren't enough players.
Sam requested to change his grouping on July 1. After that everything was in the hands of the organizers.
Any further attacks on Sam's character should stop immediately. He is one of the finest young men I know.
There are no qualifiers in NB (or PEI where I live). There simply aren't enough players.
Sam requested to change his grouping on July 1. After that everything was in the hands of the organizers.
Any further attacks on Sam's character should stop immediately. He is one of the finest young men I know.
It looks like I'm tilting at windmills.
Somebody made a bad call and refuses to take responsibility for it. I just asked a legit question and haven't got an satisfactory answer yet. I was told by other people "Why do you care?" I'm starting to think they are right. Why should I care? Let's close our eyes to everything that happens in CFC and stop asking questions. :(
Frank,
I Cc...ed you and other CFC executives all my emails to Vlad. You didn't bother to tell me about his change of plans on July 1st.
I'm sure you're right about Sam's character. This CBC interview tells a lot about him but sometimes the parents are taking decisions for their kids. Watch what he says at 2:55 http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2670749721/
Last edited by Rene Preotu; Wednesday, 8th July, 2015, 10:41 PM.
It looks like I'm tilting at windmills.
Somebody made a bad call and refuses to take responsibility for it. I just asked a legit question and haven't got an satisfactory answer yet. I was told by other people "Why do you care?" I'm starting to think they are right. Why should I care? Let's close our eyes to everything that happens in CFC and stop asking questions. :(
Frank,
I Cc...ed you and other CFC executives all my emails to Vlad. You didn't bother to tell me about his change on plans on July 1st.
I'm sure you're right about Sam's character. This CBC interview tell a lot about him but sometimes the parents are taking decisions for their kids. Watch what he says at 2:55 http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2670749721/
Rene. I felt Vlad was speaking for the Executive with his detailed responses to you. I only posted this evening after I was contacted by Sam, himself. Obviously he changed his mind between the time of the video, June 29 and July 1 when he contacted the organizer.
CFC Elections are next month. Let's all care, more.
How do you decide the exact cutoff for when they have to pick their section? Can players wait until they see a list and then change? Can those players on the list then change their section based on the other changes? I could see if you had say three very strong players that each would have an incentive to wait for the other two to determine their section before making a choice. I guess it wouldn't be a problem if every player were just listed online as registered but no other player or family member of another player knew precisely what section they were registered in (excepting those who could only play in U18 of course). Then set a cutoff as midnight on date X to submit their changes (if any) and after that tough luck.
Last edited by Tom O'Donnell; Wednesday, 8th July, 2015, 10:32 PM.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
How do you decide the exact cutoff for when they have to pick their section? Can players wait until they see a list and then change? Can those players on the list then change their section based on the other changes?.
imho, the players should be allowed to play up, however that should not be used as an easier way to get to WYCC(+$$$). The decision could be made really in advance like 1-1.5 month, and it might involve a hefty fee LOL
The rule quoted was changed. And yes, the CFC rules were not updated to reflect the change - call it situation normal. However, the individual clearly meets U18.
The local organizer was faced with having 7 in U18 with a forced bye in every round. So, in my opinion, a good decision to accept the 8th player in the U18 and get rid of the forced bye.
Apparently another case for my chess organizing waste of time file!
What were the "special circumstances" in this case? Don't tell me it was the odd number of players in the U18. The U16 girls has 7 players too.
The under 16 girls section has 7 players because one girl is playing up. Apparently that is not a big issue but that allows a round robin of seven rounds with one person receiving a bye every round.
Two players requested to play up and two players were granted the right to play up in CYCC 2015. In the case of the boys it gave each of the players the chance to play seven rounds without a bye. In the case of the girls it gave the players the chance to play 6 rounds with each player sitting out one round with a bye. If another girl had asked to play up I would have approved that to make it eight players.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Thursday, 9th July, 2015, 09:44 AM.
The under 16 girls section has 7 players because one girl is playing up. Apparently that is not a big issue but that allows a round robin of six rounds with one person receiving a bye every round.
Two players requested to play up and two players were granted the right to play up in CYCC 2015. In the case of the boys it gave each of the players the chance to play seven rounds without a bye. In the case of the girls it gave the players the chance to play 6 rounds with each player sitting out one round with a bye. If another girl had asked to play up I would have approved that to make it eight players.
There is no such thing as a round-robin of six rounds ! 7 players in a RR is the same as an 8 player RR , therefore 7 rounds with a player getting a bye each round.
The under 16 girls section has 7 players because one girl is playing up. Apparently that is not a big issue but that allows a round robin of six rounds with one person receiving a bye every round.
Two players requested to play up and two players were granted the right to play up in CYCC 2015. In the case of the boys it gave each of the players the chance to play seven rounds without a bye. In the case of the girls it gave the players the chance to play 6 rounds with each player sitting out one round with a bye. If another girl had asked to play up I would have approved that to make it eight players.
Vlad,
You're comparing oranges with apples. Your logic seems completely flawed and you continue to ignore my questions. I've already wasted too much time so I'm going to stop here. Good luck running again for the CFC president.
imho, the players should be allowed to play up, however that should not be used as an easier way to get to WYCC(+$$$). The decision could be made really in advance like 1-1.5 month, and it might involve a hefty fee LOL
If no other player or family member of another player knew the exact composition of any particular section then there would be no way of knowing which way is the easier way. Say Canada had a 13-year old GM. He would be eligible to play in U14, U16 or U18. If no one, other than the player himself, his family, and the organizers, knew which section he was playing in, they would have no way of knowing how to avoid him. Just list all the registered players as "registered".
I do agree with you that switching sections shouldn't be allowed at the last minute. However, it was allowed and so any criticism, if warranted (and I am not sure it is), should be leveled at the organizers and/or the CFC, not the Song family.
I recommend the above because it seems to me to be the easiest solution. One that requires minimal regulation and one which is trivial to implement.
P.S. Sam emailed me (I coached him for a bit) and is upset at the criticism. I told him to concentrate on the chess. Let the chess politicians and armchair QBs worry about the off-the-board stuff.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Tweet
Comment