The One and Only Climate Change thread...

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  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

    Then you should invent a car that runs on solar power, that is affordable and that runs reliably and make a fortune or give it away to "the people". Personally, though I believe that Green is probably necessary, I do not share the belief that it will be painless or that some "elite" is preventing it from happening. What I think is preventing it from happening is that the first countries that go Green will have the first economies that collapse, and that the resulting lifestyle changes will be unpleasant for almost everyone. What politician wants the economy to collapse, and have the people blame them, on their watch?
    "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

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    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

      Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
      I don't blame oil companies for wanting to make money off of a populace that believes it can consume every last drop of oil on the planet and that somehow science will save us. I consider such a view about as likely as that God will save us, which is roughly 0%.

      So in the spirit of helpfulness, here's a few things I do to put off that day of reckoning. Oh ya and to save/make a few bucks, too:
      That's quite a list. It's not just the oil companies who make money from the oil. I would assume the U.S, federal government, and maybe some states, get royalties from the oil probably based on price, or maybe it's on production. If it's 20%, and I'm just throwing out that number, for every 100 barrels of oil produced 20 belongs to the government. That's over and above corporate profits and other things which don't quickly come to mind.

      If you look at the Alberta government, they got greedy and raised the royalty rate to around 50% (depending on pricing) a couple of years ago. The oil companies left real fast and the drilling dropped off. So did the revenue. They have now revised the rates to make them more palatable but many of the companies which left have committments in other jurisdictiions and countries.

      It was one of the funniest things I ever saw. The royalty rates went sky high. The drillers left. The price of oil and gas fell off the table. Alberta went back into deficit and the drilling companies either moved their rigs or they sat idle. B.C. and Sask. are getting more action. I think SW Man. as well around Sinclair.

      Some of the things you mention are good. The walking part is OK for those who can do it. I have problems with walking these days.

      I thought those dryer sheets you mentioned were not only a softener but also to keep down the static in your clothes. For a few years doing all the laundry was my job. I liked it better than doing the cooking. :) I could do the basic cooking for us but not the fancy stuff.

      I don't expect any electric power shortages here in Ontario this year. Most stuff is shipped here from other countries. Not as much industry as there used to be from what I can see.
      Gary Ruben
      CC - IA and SIM

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      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

        Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
        The answer is to evolve into an economy run on renewable & sustainable energy sources. It can be done, and should have been done decades ago. The people want it, but the financial and political elite, the rich who prosper from the status quo, don't want to change their lifestyles!

        The answers are so obvious! Real democracy! :D
        So why can't the Green Party leader get elected?

        It's easier to prosper by making stuff for people who think it will solve the problems of humanity than by maintaining the status quo. Those rich people you write about didn't get rich by being stupid.
        Gary Ruben
        CC - IA and SIM

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        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

          Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
          So why can't the Green Party leader get elected?

          Oh, I think it is just a matter of time. Look at the public outcry that was necessary just to get her in the televised debate. With over 10% of the popular vote in the polls, it was obvious to the average person that the Green party had earned the right to be in the debate. Those in power seem unable to grasp the basic concepts of democracy when it conflicts with their own self interests. Does that answer your question!

          I predict at least 1 Green party MP in the next federal election! :D

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          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

            I voted for the Green Party last federal election, and probably will in the next one, if only so that they can get their message out to the electorate. However, I think this idea that some sort of shift to Green is only going to mean people buying fair trade coffee, driving smaller cars, having solar heated houses, etc. is a shameful way to hide what will really happen if we had to make the sort of shift necessary to make an impact. Anything else is just woefully naive, imo.
            "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

            Comment


            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

              Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
              Oh, I think it is just a matter of time. Look at the public outcry that was necessary just to get her in the televised debate. With over 10% of the popular vote in the polls, it was obvious to the average person that the Green party had earned the right to be in the debate. Those in power seem unable to grasp the basic concepts of democracy when it conflicts with their own self interests. Does that answer your question!

              I predict at least 1 Green party MP in the next federal election! :D
              Name that Riding!

              Are you trying to tell me the Green party will be able "to grasp the basic concepts of democracy when it conflicts with their own self interests"? The last part of the sentence is your own words put in the context of the party you want to win.

              Personally, I think Harper has done enough to get re-elected and if they have a reasonable candidate in this area I will vote that way. I'm not normally a conservative voter, but he's the only one who makes any sense to me.

              Maybe he can get us through what I think is coming the next few years.
              Gary Ruben
              CC - IA and SIM

              Comment


              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                One thought my son and I recently had: Once electric cars truly become easily available (My money's on the Chevolet Volt as the first popular electric car), why not sell solar power car chargers.

                Drive to work, park outside, secure the panel on top of the car. While you work the car charges. I estimate 8 hours at 300W is possible, for 2.4kWh every day. Surely this must be significant.

                Am I missing something here? Has this been patented already?

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                • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                  Apparently yes..

                  http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.c...te-paper.shtml

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                  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                    Originally posted by Garland Best View Post
                    Drive to work, park outside, secure the panel on top of the car. While you work the car charges. I estimate 8 hours at 300W is possible, for 2.4kWh every day. Surely this must be significant.

                    Am I missing something here? Has this been patented already?
                    Catalytic converters are being "taken" from cars and they are under the car. How long do you figure a solar panel would last on top of a car?

                    They are trying to sell roof top solar panels for the hot water heater. I seem to recall that costs around $4,500.00 after rebates, grants and that sort of thing. I don't know if they are selling any.
                    Gary Ruben
                    CC - IA and SIM

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                    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                      Solar powered cars probably won't be affordable for a long time to come. Even if the technology exists to make it affordable I'm sure the oil companies will try every trick up their sleeve to grind out the process as long as possible. They have killed electric cars in the past, I'm sure they are waiting to do it again.
                      University and Chess, a difficult mix.

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                      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                        Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                        Recent satellite images of the Gulf of Mexico...

                        http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/i...ate=2010-04-30
                        From ABC News today:

                        Oil industry experts and officials are reluctant to describe what, exactly, a worst-case scenario would look like - but if the oil gets into the Gulf Stream and carries it to the beaches of Florida, it stands to be an environmental and economic disaster of epic proportions.

                        The Deepwater Horizon well is at the end of one branch of the Gulf Stream, the famed warm-water current that flows from the Gulf of Mexico to the North Atlantic. Several experts said that if the oil enters the stream, it would flow around the southern tip of Florida and up the eastern seaboard.

                        "It will be on the East Coast of Florida in almost no time," Graber said. "I don't think we can prevent that. It's more of a question of when rather than if."
                        Only the rushing is heard...
                        Onward flies the bird.

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                        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                          My thoughts on the oil spill; bizzare things are happening...

                          I was looking at the bbc.news website on the daily progression of the oil spill since the accident happened. Maps are given showing the area where the oil has breached the surface for each day. From day to day there appear to be huge changes in the area that do not seem to be explainable from surface current drift alone. If the area change was only due to drift it would be changing in a more uniform, expanding pattern.

                          So what is happening. I do not know. It would seem that somehow not all of the oil is reaching the surface right away but some is being transported large distances under the surface in various deep water ocean currents and then eventually breaching the surface to give a widely variable pattern. From the pressure-temperature curves for oil this does not seem possible but I strongly suspect that this is happening; how else do you explain the surface pattern on a day-to-day basis. I am only speculating. The source of the oil is the sea floor a mile down so the lightest oil rises fast, followed by heavier more viscous oil; perhaps the heaviest thickest crud is coagulating to some type of gel that goes along with the deep water currents before eventually rising and thinning as the pressure is reduced. Have a look at these area patterns for yourself.

                          This spill can potentially get far worse, as mentioned above. If it does reach the Gulf Stream then there is no stopping it from moving up the east coast of North America and crossing the Atlantic over to Southern Europe as well as heading to the Arctic. The only question would be how long could it stay intact and buoyant since presumably it would disperse and parts would even chemically break down and sink.

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                          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                            Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                            From ABC News today:

                            Oil industry experts and officials are reluctant to describe what, exactly, a worst-case scenario would look like - but if the oil gets into the Gulf Stream and carries it to the beaches of Florida, it stands to be an environmental and economic disaster of epic proportions.
                            I'd suppose worst case they can't plug the well and it will seep until there is nothing left. This is unlikely.

                            Most likely is 6 to 12 weeks to get it shut off.

                            Best case is a few weeks.

                            It's a U.S. well, in U.S. waters, and the U.S. is getting the oil. It would appear the problem is they don't like the way they are getting it.

                            What I'm seeing on TV is what is being done to try to stop the oil slick. Big money numbers. I haven't heard what is being done to stop the leak or how long it will take to get the equipment in place. All this takes our eyes off the ball. The problem is the leak and stopping it.
                            Gary Ruben
                            CC - IA and SIM

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                            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                              Some reports are now talking about 100,000 barrels/day of leakage. This seems absurdly high.

                              So what is the problem with stopping the leaks. This is not rocket science. The U. S. sent men to the moon and yet cannot do some basic plumbing. Granted, it is deep, but surely there are methods to stop the leak.

                              Most commonly hydraulic cement, which is very fast at solidifying is used for plugging leaks but this has not been done at mile depths. They are trying to build a steel/concrete assembly to drop on top of the outflow to contain the oil which could then be pumped to the surface.

                              There are hundreds of rigs in the Gulf, on bbc.news they had a graphic illustrating this. Presumably, they all have similar designs to the problem rig. What about the owners of Deepwater Horizon, I have not heard much about them in the news; after all it was their rig.

                              There was a report in WSJ claiming that Haliburtan was working on the pipes at the time that the accident occurred and this may be related to the initial problem. Late last week US SWAT teams were flown to each rig it "verity safety procedures" on the rigs. There may be a lot more going on than we are privy to.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                                Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                                Some reports are now talking about 100,000 barrels/day of leakage. This seems absurdly high.

                                So what is the problem with stopping the leaks. This is not rocket science. The U. S. sent men to the moon and yet cannot do some basic plumbing. Granted, it is deep, but surely there are methods to stop the leak.

                                Most commonly hydraulic cement, which is very fast at solidifying is used for plugging leaks but this has not been done at mile depths. They are trying to build a steel/concrete assembly to drop on top of the outflow to contain the oil which could then be pumped to the surface.

                                There are hundreds of rigs in the Gulf, on bbc.news they had a graphic illustrating this. Presumably, they all have similar designs to the problem rig. What about the owners of Deepwater Horizon, I have not heard much about them in the news; after all it was their rig.
                                It does sound high. Still, my friend in Europe who is in that business wrote the following to me on the ICCF message board:

                                "I heard it may get up to 100 000 barrels per day - its
                                Beyond Pollution."

                                Oil is his line. My line was natural gas distribution systems. I never worked with oil.

                                Fixing that isn't as easy or as fast as you think.

                                They not only have to fix the problem but have to try to figure out how and why it happened. Why the BOP didn't work. I'm not using any company names because I have no idea who is at fault. I think the owner of the well is responsible for the well, but this doesn't mean they caused the problem. I've read there are three companies which own the well with one having 65% ownership.

                                Isn't it the Pelicans which recently came off the endangered species list? They would be nesting now in that area. I don't know if you ever saw the movie "Pelican Brief" with Julia Roberts. It's based loosely on offshore drilling off Lousianna and the endangered Pelicans.

                                I heard on TV they have started drilling but don't know where they get their information. It won't be fast to drill into the pipe and plug it.

                                For the scope of the disaster, until further clarification, I'm thinking 3 mile island proportions.

                                Personally, I think this helps the image of our tar sands (I think they like to call them oil sands these days) and probably makes them more valuable. The U.S. may want to rely more on our oil and less on offshore oil.

                                Another thing they should be doing is switching over more oil fired industry to natural gas. It burns cleaner and pollutes less. Also, they have a glut of natural gas with the new shale gas fracing technology.
                                Gary Ruben
                                CC - IA and SIM

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