$ 400 in 5 hours work !!

[Paul Bonham]

Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

I suggest you take the blinders off. You're so focussed on trying to impale Jean Hebert that you're failing to see the bigger, more accurate picture. For example, have you read what Carl Bilodeau wrote about Jean elsewhere in this thread? How do you reconcile your viewpoint with what Carl wrote?

Well, I see that you rescinded your earlier remarks, but just to let everyone know what kind of poster you are here, I'll put your remarks back along with my response.

But first, to the above, I'm certainly not trying to "impale" Jean Hebert, this is just you being outrageous. Please remember that Jean instigates these threads with his attack on organizers. He calls them "lazy dumbells" for not getting sponsors. He further calls the state of Canadian chess development "retarded" for the same reasons.

I would not go so far as to say Jean Hebert is not doing any good at all for Canadian chess, you will see that in my response to Carl's post.

So Jean is doing probably some good with his teaching and his writing, but if his writing includes his trademark attacks on organizers, then that is doing more harm than good.

I'm not failing to see the bigger picture at all. Rather, I think you as an obvious Hebert fanboy are failing to put yourself in the shoes of an organizer who volunteers (or gets paid next to nothing) to bring tournaments to the public.



Now here's your original post, and my response to it:

I see. Well, I'm certainly relieved to hear it ... because for a while there I was concerned that you were a dyed-in-the-wool, give-him-the-whole-nine-yards, yoo-hoo-I-have-my-own-chapter-in-DSM-IV whacko. Now that it's clear that you're just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill whacko, I guess we can all breath a sigh of relief.

p.s. You don't own any firearms, do you?

Well, good for you! Isn't that special? It's good to just let it all out, isn't it? Yes, when you don't understand something, just lash out at it. Good little Hebert fanboy!

So, let's see, for standing up for organizers, I'm an ordinary whacko. Have something against organizers, do we? Did we have a bad experience? Oh, and now we're very gun-shy! Oh, my....

Dr. Assengrabben! We got a live one here!

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

He writes a weekly chess magazine for 1500+ readers and spend one day a week doing it. This is the kind of player you need more of in Canada!

Also he beated the young Canadian top players to become the Canadian Champion 2009. This is the kind of player you need more of in Canada!

He stay in Canada and play in Canada's tournaments so our kids can chalenge him. This is the kind of player you need more of in Canada!

He gives many good advices base on his long carreer as a teacher, as a chess newspapers writer and as a chess player. This is the kind of player you need more of in Canada!

Carl

Jean Hebert is not a totally evil person. But neither is he the chess philanthropist that his puppy dog Carl makes him out to be.

The HPE newsletter may seem free, but not so fast. Jean gets paid by organizers to cover their tournaments, n'est-ce pas? I'm sure the organizers recoup this cost in the price of the tournament. So if you're a tournament player in Quebec, you're likely paying for this newsletter even if you don't get it. And I'm sure Jean makes at least a little profit from this activity. Not that that's a bad thing, and as long as he's not using his newsletter to make self-serving points about "Canada's retarded chess development", where Canada means everywhere in Canada outside of Quebec, then ok, this could be a good thing.

Canadian champion, ok, fine..... doesn't mean he gets to decide what's right and wrong with organized chess in Canada. Until he goes to various municipalities across Canada, outside of Quebec, and gets sponsors involved in the local chess scene there himself, or helps the local organizers do it (with his sweet charm), everything he says here on Chesstalk about organizing is just his opinion, and remember that those who can't do, teach.

So Carl, Jean plays in Canada SO THE KIDS CAN CHALLENGE HIM? AWWWWWWW, that is so sweet of him! He does it for the kids! Why, I'll bet his pursuit of GM norms is also for the kids. Get real, Carl. The only people buying that are those few whose minds are so closed they can't even fathom curling.

A long career teaching and writing can be good, depending on what is being taught and what is being written. I don't know what he's taught or written so I can't comment on that.

But once again, if you play in a tournament and you HELP THE ORGANIZER SELFLESSLY by doing things that no one else will do and that make the tournament better for the visitor, and thus enhance the whole chess experience, that's when I say you are the kind of player that Canada needs more of. It's a high standard and Jean Hebert unfortunately doesn't meet it, and why should he, he's a chess professional? Why should a financially struggling endeavour like chess expect such things? Why should chess players help to create their own success? But furthermore by his careless criticisms and arrogant "Father knows best" attitude, Jean makes chess less palatable to both organizers and sponsors and is a negative influence overall despite what may be some good points.

Carl can repeat his infantile drivel all he wants, until the nice people from the sanitorium come with the straitjacket, it doesn't make it so.

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

Adding on: Here's the Amazon link to the book.

http://www.amazon.ca/Spark-Revolutio...9397466&sr=1-1

If you buy it remember to log in through the CFC Referral link so they get a % :)

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

That's one nice feature of chess. Everybody, young and old, men or women, rich and not so rich, physically handicapped, slim and not so slim can play and enjoy the game at various levels. The one possible exception being the PB type looking for brainless lottery type games with a high level of chance and randomness. Fortunately thinking games like chess have built-in features to keep those really handicapped people away. :)

I am quite sure the likes of Phil Hellmuth, Chris Ferguson, Ted Forrest, Scotty Nguyen, and many more are very GLAD that certain features of chess - such as very tiny fan interest, no TV interest, tiny sponsor interest - keep them away so they can do very well, thank you very much, in other avenues where life's randomness and chance do come into play. And there's others such as Jeff Sarwer or myself, who can handle it both ways and would much prefer the randomness and chance way, at least from a professional standpoint (Jeff Sarwer).

Someday maybe Jean will learn to respect and to deal with randomness and chance, seeing as it's everywhere around him except in his little chess piece world. Must be hard, living life in a bubble, trying so hard to keep all the randomness out.

That certainly explains a lot. Such as, when Jean Hebert posts a message that organizers that don't get sponsors are lazy dumbells, the look of surprise on his face when a PB shows up to dare to dispute his edict. PB is the random element that Jean Hebert hasn't learned to deal with, and so far Jean's reaction is simply to discredit the random element, to try and make it all go away. Guess what, this is life. Get used to it. Call me what you will, Jean Hebert, what I really am is your karma.

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

The book in general thinks team sports are pathetic, both educationally and as an exercise tool.

It makes sense too. If they WERE good exercise, pro athletes wouldn't have to work out to be in good shape to play their games! You spend way too much time sitting around while other people do things.

The author particularly loves Tennis if you are into individual sports. A great combination of hand-eye coordination needed plus reflexes AND running around. And very little in the way of "enforced" downtime - you take a break when you're tired, not when the rules of the game require you to.

Hi Chris, thanks!

To be honest, I'm a little surprised at the team sport conclusions, especially as some team sports involve more "thinking" than others, some team sports seem to have a very high level of fitness, and so on.

Is your 2nd paragraph about pro athletes your conclusion, or the book's? I always thought that (cross-)training, without over-training was beneficial almost everywhere, but I am not a pro athlete, lol!

I have indeed enjoyed watching and playing tennis over the years, but it can be tough on some of the joints over time.

Anyway, thanks again for the info, and feel free to drop any other tidbits. I remember that when I was playing my highest-rated chess, I was doing some specific sports that I have no idea whether they were helping me or not. Hence some of my questions above.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

So Jean is doing probably some good with his teaching and his writing, but if his writing includes his trademark attacks on organizers, then that is doing more harm than good.

I'm not failing to see the bigger picture at all. Rather, I think you as an obvious Hebert fanboy are failing to put yourself in the shoes of an organizer who volunteers (or gets paid next to nothing) to bring tournaments to the public.

That's nonsense. Jean was playing CC when I was organizing and he was never a problem player. Any organizer who is so thin skinned they are offended by what Jean is saying probably should not be organizing.

When I had a problem player I didn't cry about it. I handled the problem.

I will tell you something general about doing volunteer jobs. It doesn't give people the right to do a shoddy job because they are not getting paid.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

I don't know what he's taught or written so I can't comment on that.

That's a new twist. Not knowing has never stopped you before. You have been praising people you know very little about or about what they have done (more embarrassing than anything else for them), you have been commenting on canadian chess and its problems with skin deep knowledge of them while living in the States, you have been suggesting silly modifications to the most spreaded and respected thinking game on the planet while being hardly more than a beginner at it, and most importantly you have been critisizing and trying to insult me for the sheer pleasure of it on the basis of one or two posts that somehow displeased the all important PB, while disregarding and disputing out of bad faith and ignorance every bit of information contrary to your beliefs posted by numerous people, me included.
The words "I can't comment on that" should have been applied to just about every topic you have touched on this message board. At this point you have dug yourself a hole so deep that no one really expects you to turn around and start acting decently if only by keeping quiet.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

Any organizer who is so thin skinned they are offended by what Jean is saying probably should not be organizing.

When I had a problem player I didn't cry about it. I handled the problem.

I will tell you something general about doing volunteer jobs. It doesn't give people the right to do a shoddy job because they are not getting paid.

Well said Gary. :)

Chess organizing is a lot of work considering the pay (if any), but dealing with problem players comes with the territory. Personally I find 99% of players are no problem at all. Maybe I've just been lucky.;)

While I can appreciate PB's support for chess organizers, (and this thread is very entertaining indeed) I think some of his comments are "just a little over the top". :(

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

It's really early, but I can't think of any team sports off the top of my head that would be nearly as beneficial as Tennis. The key is you have to be thinking DURING and ABOUT the exercise. Sure there are some cases - Football QB, basketball/hockey playing, but those all spend a lot of time sitting on the bench too.

For team sports I wasn't speaking of cross training. Football players exercise in ways that directly mimic in-game activities. Ditto baseball players.

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

It's really early, but I can't think of any team sports off the top of my head that would be nearly as beneficial as Tennis. The key is you have to be thinking DURING and ABOUT the exercise. Sure there are some cases - Football QB, basketball/hockey playing, but those all spend a lot of time sitting on the bench too.

For team sports I wasn't speaking of cross training. Football players exercise in ways that directly mimic in-game activities. Ditto baseball players.

Hmmm, I don't know that no team sport would be "nearly as beneficial" as tennis. Like which sports wouldn't you think "during and about" the exercise? Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing tennis, but it seems to me that many sports would provide as much mental challenge as tennis, or am I missing something? As for the sitting part, in some cases, that reflects how much more physically demanding the sport is, either because it requires more rest, or because the culture of the sport is to limit substitutions, which is in effect to physically challenge the players who have to stay on the field. Finally, what do you mean about the training point? Doesn't every sport do some in-game mimicking?

Anyway, I hope this post doesn't come off as antagonistic, I really do want to hear which sports actvities that book recommends, and figure it can't be just tennis?! ;)

All the best!

[Benoit St-Pierre]

Talk Talk

Being just a little over the top might not be detrimental to the dealing of any issue. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. What goes around comes around. Those who lives by the sword... Et cetera.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

While I can appreciate PB's support for chess organizers ...

Ah. This is a very interesting topic. Praise and "support". I believe that most people will agree that it is much easier to ignore and reject criticism (even if constructive) than it is to ignore and reject praise and support, even if it comes from uninformed and sometimes "interested" sources. For example, if I say that Bob Gillanders is one of the nicest person I have ever met, people might think that Mr Gillanders must indeed be a very nice person. But Mr Gillanders and I know that we have NEVER met. This kind of praise is worth nothing, it says nothing about the person Mr Gillanders is, but it says a lot about the guy making such baseless statements.

The same goes for people praising chess tournament organizers who never play in their events, have no intention to do so and don't even show up at tournaments to watch, such as is the case with PeeBee. People should not get too much comfort from such "support".

[Bob Armstrong]

Organizer Support by CFC

Since we're talking about support to organizers, it is good to note that the CFC is aware of this issue, and hopes to give more support to organizers in future. A motion has been filed by me, seconded by GM Mark Bluvshtein, to add to the CFC Executive the new position of Tournament Coordinator. One of the jobs of this position will be :

8A. ( a ) The Tournament Coordinator will help to develop and train tournament organizers and directors across the country.

As well, I have filed, seconded by Michael von Keitz, a motion to add another new position to the Executive, Public Relations Coordinator. One of his/her roles will be:

8C. The Public Relations Coordinator will be responsible for promoting the image of the CFC and for promoting chess generally to the public. As such the Public Relations Coordinator will, among other things:

- work with chess clubs and organizers across Canada to raise the profile of the CFC and chess generally;

The original idea for these two positions came from past CFC President, David Lavin. We think they will help organizers in the field in various ways, and give them support.

Bob

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Organizer Support by CFC

Since we're talking about support to organizers, it is good to note that the CFC is aware of this issue, and hopes to give more support to organizers in future. A motion has been filed by me, seconded by GM Mark Bluvshtein, to add to the CFC Executive the new position of Tournament Coordinator. One of the jobs of this position will be :

8A. ( a ) The Tournament Coordinator will help to develop and train tournament organizers and directors across the country.

As well, I have filed, seconded by Michael von Keitz, a motion to add another new position to the Executive, Public Relations Coordinator. One of his/her roles will be:

8C. The Public Relations Coordinator will be responsible for promoting the image of the CFC and for promoting chess generally to the public. As such the Public Relations Coordinator will, among other things:

- work with chess clubs and organizers across Canada to raise the profile of the CFC and chess generally;

The original idea for these two positions came from past CFC President, David Lavin. We think they will help organizers in the field in various ways, and give them support.

Bob

Hi Bob, thanks for the info, and let's hope that these can indeed help Organizers/TDs!

Some initial thoughts:

1) Adding red tape to Organizers/TDs would NOT be helpful, LOL! It would not matter if red tape is DISGUISED as being helpful, LOL! Red tape must be resisted at all costs! ;)

2) Listening to the opinion of Organizers/TDs (the guys on the front line) regarding things like membership fees and rating fees would be a good idea. IMHO, that did not happen enough with the recent changes to temporary memberships and rating fees. I am not bringing it up to rehash it, as what's done is done. However, I do distinctly remember several active Organizers/TDs expressing opinions that seemed ignored?!

3) Almost every time I prepare for one of my weekend events (normally 5 a year), I will get requests from Quebec players regarding what it would cost to play. I have lost up to a dozen potential players per event, when I explain the $36 annual fee and the $16 per tournament fee (all numbers for Quebec only). So, if I had to pick one thing to help me as an Organizer/TD, it would be for the CFC to get a working agreement with the FQE! This is especially frustrating in Ottawa, where we have so many eager players across the river in Gatineau, and relatively close in Montreal, who understandably balk at the costs as they now are. Note I'm not defending the FQE, but the average Quebec player!

Thanks and regards,

Aris Marghetis, FIDE Arbiter
Organizer/TD, EOCA President

[Carl Bilodeau]

Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: $ 400 in 5 hours work !!

Probably because the first digit of my weight is a 2? Of course I am way too big, but why give me more than I deserve?

I used pounds not kilos. 204 kilos = 450 pounds.