Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

[Ken MacDonald]

Today at Reggio Emilia, Morozevich "pulled a LeSiege (Was it he who did this vs. Charbonneau?)," but Ivanchuk knew his stuff!

http://livechess.chessdom.com/site/

[Keith MacKinnon]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

Playing on in that position just shows a lack of class. Terrible

[Ken MacDonald]

Opinion Regarding Playing On in a K+B+N vs. K EndGame

Playing on in that position just shows a lack of class. Terrible

So LeSiege (Can anyone confirm it was he?), who showed that Charbonneau didn't know how to effect this mate, should have resigned instead of getting the draw? What am I missing here? Or did you mean after Ivanchuk proved he could do the mate, Morozevich should have resigned? I remember watching the Charbonneau game and occasionally, he would get close, and it appeared he knew how to make the mate, then he would go astray. Or do you mean at the level of the players of the game today? Charbonneau is a GM, is he not? It would be interesting to hear the opinions of others, especially our top level players.

[Nic Haynes]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

I'm a master (a weak one), and I honestly have no idea how to mate with knight and bishop. I can also say that in hundreds of thousands of games (and I really do mean that number), I am fairly certain that I have never reached that ending, on either side.

Honestly, I would probably just offer a draw with a knight and bishop. I don't think knowing how to mate with them falls within the realm of overly practical knowledge, but good on you if you do.

[Tyler Longo]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

I'm a master (a weak one), and I honestly have no idea how to mate with knight and bishop. I can also say that in hundreds of thousands of games (and I really do mean that number), I am fairly certain that I have never reached that ending, on either side.

Honestly, I would probably just offer a draw with a knight and bishop. I don't think knowing how to mate with them falls within the realm of overly practical knowledge, but good on you if you do.

I've known how to perform that mate since I was 1800, its just a matter of learning it or having someone teach it to you. It's nowhere near as difficult as it is made out to be though.

I've had to defend against it once against an expert (was drawn via 50 move rule), but never had to perform it myself other than in a blitz game once.

[Felix Dumont]

Re : Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

I played this endgame a couple of time, and if you know the ''W plan'' it's really easy... In my opinion Morozevich was more looking for a nice finish, there were no doubt that Ivanchuk knew how to mate with a knight and a bishop.

If you don't know how to mate with a knight and a bishop, just take 5 or 10 minutes to practice this endgame and you will never forget how to win it.

[Patrick Kirby]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

There have been multiple cases of GMs failing to win this ending so there's nothing shameful about playing it out.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

Oh, I'd feel pretty shameful if I'm a GM and I didn't know how to mate with bishop and knight. Some junior called the arbiter on me once when I got this ending and I showed him hehehe :)

[Tom O'Donnell]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

On ICC they have a program called KNBk (or maybe KBNk) and it produces random, but winning, positions with this ending. Taking fifteen minutes or so to practice should make winning in an actual game a whole lot simpler.

[Kevin Me]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

lol that's how i learned

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

My database of 4.5 million games has about 900 games with KBN vs K. An amazing 200 or so games ended up drawn. Of course - this includes positions in which there had been a few piece exchanges and the weaker side's K ended up forking the two unprotected minor pieces.

Of these 200 games, at least 30 players of at least master strength failed to win with the KBN. We don't know if time may have been a factor or not.

GM Vladimir Epishin (2567) couldn't do it in 2001 against Robert Kempinski (2522). The game lasted 179 moves.

Other well-known GM's that couldn't do it include Krzysztof Pytel (twice!) and Bela Lengyel. I'm sure there are other lesser-known GM's in there as well. Also IM Mark Ginsburg.

The only Canadian content I can add is a draw between John Hallam (with the KBN) and Sergei Sokourinski in the 1999 BC Championship, and a draw between Manon Leger (with the KBN) and Gabriela Koskova in the 1994 Women's Olympiad.

(I have had the KBN side twice - and won both times, but not in the most efficient manner)

No Charbonneau games - although in the 2010 Quebec Open, he tried to win with K+NN vs K+P against Sylvain Barbeau.

[Gilles Groleau]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

On ICC they have a program called KNBk (or maybe KBNk) and it produces random, but winning, positions with this ending. Taking fifteen minutes or so to practice should make winning in an actual game a whole lot simpler.

30 sec increment make winning in actual game a whole lot simpler...
but in the old days with less than a minute on the clock, i guess it was different

[Gilles Groleau]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

My database of 4.5 million games has about 900 games with KBN vs K. An amazing 200 or so games ended up drawn. Of course - this includes positions in which there had been a few piece exchanges and the weaker side's K ended up forking the two unprotected minor pieces.

Of these 200 games, at least 30 players of at least master strength failed to win with the KBN. We don't know if time may have been a factor or not.

GM Vladimir Epishin (2567) couldn't do it in 2001 against Robert Kempinski (2522). The game lasted 179 moves.

Other well-known GM's that couldn't do it include Krzysztof Pytel (twice!) and Bela Lengyel. I'm sure there are other lesser-known GM's in there as well. Also IM Mark Ginsburg.

The only Canadian content I can add is a draw between John Hallam (with the KBN) and Sergei Sokourinski in the 1999 BC Championship, and a draw between Manon Leger (with the KBN) and Gabriela Koskova in the 1994 Women's Olympiad.

(I have had the KBN side twice - and won both times, but not in the most efficient manner)

No Charbonneau games - although in the 2010 Quebec Open, he tried to win with K+NN vs K+P against Sylvain Barbeau.

http://membres.multimania.fr/leoqc/MATOU/30/groleau.htm

i wrote something about that endgame in French many years ago....
and strangely it is still on the web.
i guess nothing is really new in that type of position.. and probably very simmilar stuff will be probably found in some books..

the cheneese wall technique lol

[Keith MacKinnon]

Re: Opinion Regarding Playing On in a K+B+N vs. K EndGame

So LeSiege (Can anyone confirm it was he?), who showed that Charbonneau didn't know how to effect this mate, should have resigned instead of getting the draw? What am I missing here? Or did you mean after Ivanchuk proved he could do the mate, Morozevich should have resigned? I remember watching the Charbonneau game and occasionally, he would get close, and it appeared he knew how to make the mate, then he would go astray. Or do you mean at the level of the players of the game today? Charbonneau is a GM, is he not? It would be interesting to hear the opinions of others, especially our top level players.

I wasn't referring to what LeSiege may have done against Charbonneau. I was referring to the fact that Morozevich did not resign against Ivanchuk (one of the best players in the world over the past ~15 years). To me, this just shows a clear lack of respect for his opponent. Where has sportsmanship gone?

[Keith MacKinnon]

Re: Ivanchuk-Morozevich Today

On ICC they have a program called KNBk (or maybe KBNk) and it produces random, but winning, positions with this ending. Taking fifteen minutes or so to practice should make winning in an actual game a whole lot simpler.

probably the most useful thing about ICC :)