Adjourning a game

[Marcus Wilker]

I remember in the old days at SCC, we used to play 40/2, 20/1, 20/1, etc. and we used to adjourn games pretty regularly. There was a special box in the chess cabinet where we kept all the sealed move envelopes.

Does anybody play at a club where you adjourn games any more? Does FIDE allow adjournments?

[Gordon Ritchie]

Re: Adjourning a game

I remember those days well. Of course, that was before computers. As a result, only the top Russians could go to sleep knowing that the full analysis of the position would be available for them to review in the morning.:)

[Marcus Wilker]

Re: Adjourning a game

I remember those days well. Of course, that was before computers. As a result, only the top Russians could go to sleep knowing that the full analysis of the position would be available for them to review in the morning.:)

So you think now, in the age of computers, there is an unfair advantage to the player who doesn't have to seal the move? or an unfair advantage to the weaker player?

Wouldn't it just mean that both players have access to analyse the ending and whoever has secured a clear advantage should win? (And in the process, both players get a chance to do some practical concrete study of an ending.)

[Alan Baljeu]

Re: Adjourning a game

Chess is supposed to be about skill. If 20 moves are from the opening, 20 moves are jockeying for an advantage, and then there's an adjournment, computers jump in and analyze the best moves, and next day the players return to bang out 10 moves of the main line, and then one player resigns.

What happened? Both players played 20 GM moves, followed up as best they could, and reached a position neither really knew how to play great.
If they continued on their own power, they'd miss opportunities capitalize on speculative play, and have an interesting game. Instead, computers jump in, untangle the mess and prove how one side wins an exchange and a pawn, and the game's over. Might as well just invoke adjudication rather than play a game.

[Marcus Wilker]

Re: Adjourning a game

Chess is supposed to be about skill. If 20 moves are from the opening, 20 moves are jockeying for an advantage, and then there's an adjournment, ...

But wouldn't the adjournment more likely come after about 60 moves instead of 40? The "interesting game," the "missed opportunities," etc., would have already happened. Now, the question is whether we force the players to blitz out the resulting ending till somebody blunders or flags, or whether we allow them to break, consult computers, and then return to play it out at a reasonable pace.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Adjourning a game

In 2001, I played in Paignton, England and they still had adjournments which came as a big surprise to me when they asked me to seal my move...

Don't know if they still do this but even then, this was quite unusual.

(it was a break for supper - only a few hours)

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Adjourning a game

Roger wrote:

(it was a break for supper - only a few hours)

I have a friend who played in British county league team matches in the 1970's. All games would stop at a certain time "for tea", and resume about 30 minutes later. I don't think they were official adjournments with sealed moves, etc.

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: Adjourning a game

But wouldn't the adjournment more likely come after about 60 moves instead of 40? The "interesting game," the "missed opportunities," etc., would have already happened. Now, the question is whether we force the players to blitz out the resulting ending till somebody blunders or flags, or whether we allow them to break, consult computers, and then return to play it out at a reasonable pace.

Adjournments used to be after 40 moves when play was 40 moves in 2.5 hours. In the Toronto Closed there was usually at least one adjournment each round.

The hard part was trying to get the two players to agree when to play the adjournment. Sometimes before a round, and if they made it to move 60, another adjournment so that they could start the next round.

Games over 60 moves were few, but some could still go to 100, especially if the defender is trying for the 50 move rule and the other player is stubborn that it is a win.

[David Bowers]

Re: Adjourning a game

Chess is supposed to be about skill. ..... Might as well just invoke adjudication rather than play a game.

computers as an advantage during adjournment will assist only a small percentage of players. for us weakies, one player makes one non-computer move and we're back on our own again.

all the rest of us have to put up with the current absurdly fast time controls because GMs have to avoid adjournments...

and when one inquires of a TD or an organizer about their choice of fast time controls, they say "oh well we can't have it fide rated without these time controls".

the tail wagging the dog.

[Stuart Brammall]

Re: Adjourning a game

and when one inquires of a TD or an organizer about their choice of fast time controls, they say "oh well we can't have it fide rated without these time controls".

the tail wagging the dog.

I'm not sure which TD/Organizer you have in mind, but fide is not very restrictive on which time controls are allowed. My understanding is that they only specify a minimum of 60 minutes per player for an event to be rated regularly.

Venue restraints have in my experience been the primary factor when deciding on time controls.

[Stuart Brammall]

Re: Adjourning a game

Here is the pertinent section of the fide handbook:

(relavent to having events included in the rating list)

1.0 Rate of Play

1.1 For a game to be rated each player must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 2200 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 120 minutes.
Where at least one of the players in the tournament has a rating 1600 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 90 minutes.
Where all the players in the tournament are rated below 1600, each player must have a minimum of 60 minutes.

1.2 Games played with all the moves at a rate faster than the above are excluded from the list.

1.3 Where a certain number of moves is specified in the first time control, it shall be 40 moves. Players benefit from uniformity here.

[David Bowers]

Re: Adjourning a game

[QUOTE=Stuart Brammall;35195]Here is the pertinent section of the fide handbook:

<snip>. thank you stuart. very interesting. i did not know this. i have been conned.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Adjourning a game

but fide is not very restrictive on which time controls are allowed

However, there are restrictions for title's tournaments.

"1.14 The tournament must be played by using one of the following rates of play:
90 minutes with 30 seconds cumulative increment for each move starting from first move
90 minutes for 40 moves + 30 minutes with 30 seconds cumulative increment for each move starting from the first move
100 minutes for 40 moves followed by 50 minutes for 20 moves, then 15 minutes for the remaining moves with 30 seconds cumulative increment for each move starting from first move
40 moves in 2 hours followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game
40 moves in 2 hours followed by 60 minutes for the rest of the game
40 moves in 2 hours followed by 20 moves in 1 hour followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game"

I think that these time controls still allow adjournments.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Adjourning a game

computers as an advantage during adjournment will assist only a small percentage of players. for us weakies, one player makes one non-computer move and we're back on our own again.

all the rest of us have to put up with the current absurdly fast time controls because GMs have to avoid adjournments...

and when one inquires of a TD or an organizer about their choice of fast time controls, they say "oh well we can't have it fide rated without these time controls".

the tail wagging the dog.

I think the longest game I ever had was 9 hours in a weekend tournament back in the day of 40/2 followed by infinite 20/1. Too many of those in a weekend tournament and you quickly understand why both players and organizers might want something different.

I do miss longer games but also cannot keep it up for a whole tournament and game/90 + 30 is a pragmatic choice all things considering.

[David Bowers]

Re: Adjourning a game

hi roger. it comes down now to arguing about taste here, but here goes...

I think the longest game I ever had was 9 hours in a weekend tournament back in the day of 40/2 followed by infinite 20/1.

doesn't have to be infinite to still be superior to this farcial g/90 stuff we see nowadays.

Too many of those in a weekend tournament and you quickly understand why both players and organizers might want something different. I do miss longer games but also cannot keep it up for a whole tournament and game/90 + 30 is a pragmatic choice all things considering.

if this were really the reason, then we would not see g/90 for the "one game per week" tournaments.

mind you, as i said above, it's a matter of taste. i've heard older people tell me that they like the faster time controls as they don't have the stamina for the longer time controls. but of course this just ensures that lower quality chess will CERTAINLY ensue due to lack of thinking time rather than lower quality chess POSSIBLY ensuing due to lack of stamina. take your pick!! ;-)