THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

In related news Occupy Windsor protestors went home now that temperatures dropped due to global warming...

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

I notice that Canada has pulled out of the Kyoto agreement. Too bad, so sad.

Its New Year's Eve almost three weeks early! Harper didn't want to send 12 billion overseas in penalties in 2012. How Conservative of him! Elizabeth May whined about it on CBC tonight. The NDP and Liberals whined too. Harper ignored them.

There was an editorial blasting David Suzuki trying to strong arm kids for donations to save Santa's North Pole headquarters which was in danger due to global warming. Of course the donations would support David Suzuki's foundation while Santa winds up in the drink.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

I notice that Canada has pulled out of the Kyoto agreement. Too bad, so sad.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

It is a bit ironic that some of the countries that are really giving it to us over the Harper government's realistic take on Kyoto are the ones that will benefit the most from a west coast pipeline.

We'll benefit a bit from the west coast pipeline as well. The way it works now our oil is pretty much landlocked. The customers are Canada and the U.S. for the most part. The pricing we get is for West Texas Intermediate Crude. If we were shipping overseas we would get Brent Crude prices.

The big thing is Brent Crude is currently around 10 dollars a barrel more than we are getting. Awhile back it was 30 dollars a barrel more. The Americans were getting a fabulous deal.

Why should we care? Mainly because our government gets less money in taxes from the lower prices and it costs us all.

Shipping cost isn't a big deal. A supertanker can hold and ship 2 million barrels of oil.

The tar sands will be developed and the crude sold. The only question is the customer and the price. The Americans know all this but there's an election coming up.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

In Canada the enviromentalists did not have the political party which supported them win the election.

They seem to forget that though. If Canadians really accepted the propositions of the Green Party they probably would have won more than one seat.

I notice the pipeline to the U.S. is back in the news. Some of their politicians don't want the pipeline delayed more than a year. They know the pipeline to the Pacific is built oil will be shipped to the coast instead of going South to the U.S. There's something else to consider. Even if the pipeline is built to the U.S. and the pipeline to the west coast also built much will go to places other than the U.S. Foreign national companies have invested heavily and they will likely want the oil "in kind" rather than taking the money. The Americans might not have to worry about our "dirty oil".

It is a bit ironic that some of the countries that are really giving it to us over the Harper government's realistic take on Kyoto are the ones that will benefit the most from a west coast pipeline.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

Most notable of the black sheep is Canada. The CBC had an opinion piece by Rex Murphy which shows just how far the influence of the environmental movement has fallen even in its strongest bastion, the CBC.

In Canada the enviromentalists did not have the political party which supported them win the election.

I notice the pipeline to the U.S. is back in the news. Some of their politicians don't want the pipeline delayed more than a year. They know the pipeline to the Pacific is built oil will be shipped to the coast instead of going South to the U.S. There's something else to consider. Even if the pipeline is built to the U.S. and the pipeline to the west coast also built much will go to places other than the U.S. Foreign national companies have invested heavily and they will likely want the oil "in kind" rather than taking the money. The Americans might not have to worry about our "dirty oil".

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

I was reading the future of the Kyoto agreement is not bright. I guess some countries don't want to send money.

Most notable of the black sheep is Canada. The CBC had an opinion piece by Rex Murphy which shows just how far the influence of the environmental movement has fallen even in its strongest bastion, the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/indept...hy-120111.html

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

I was reading the future of the Kyoto agreement is not bright. I guess some countries don't want to send money.

[Paul Beckwith]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

Open invitation to people in Ottawa: I am giving an 80 minute lecture
titled "Climate changes: past and future" to my climatology class GEG 2304
at University of Ottawa on Monday December 5th from 11:30 to 1:00 in
Morisset MRT 205 (library, upstairs just inside entrance)...all are
welcome...this should be of general interest to people...

Paul Beckwith (Ph.D. Program)
Laboratory for Paleoclimatology and Climatology
Department of Geography
University of Ottawa
Ottawa, ON
K1N 6N5 Canada

[Emil Smilovici]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

...scientist...engineering degree...What's the difference ?

I happen to have both. Engineering Physics and Physics, and now I am studying climatology

Emil, what type of Engineering degree do you have; just wondering what makes you kind of closed minded about climate change (I reach this conclusion due to your use of terms like "joke" and "religion", these expressions tell me you know little about what you purport to know (like Vlad). How about reading "Understanding Weather and Climate, 5th Edition, by Aguado and Burt" for a start, then we can talk...

Sorry for the delay - I have a handful of books on Caravaggio and also iWoz -(nice book by a famous engineer) - that distracted me from the all engrossing chesstalk.

Let's see.

My degree in Electrical engineering / Computers Hardware is not relevant to the discussion - it came in relation to the 20 million scientist assertion.
"Religion" : you're right ... a bit too strong .. "cult" will be more appropriate ... the (main stream) religions are much more important.
"Close minded?" - maybe, I don't know ...
Your book suggestion comes a little late - quite a few years actually.

A while back I was "sitting on the fence" ... then:
Global Warming Doomsday Called Off
came about ... you must have seen it - still available on internet - from CBC - quite reputable scientists showed up there

Have you read:
Unstoppable global warming : every 1,500 years / S. Fred Singer and Dennis T. Avery. ?
and I mean from start to end , not just a few pages and then publish an ad hominem at amazon.com or youtube e.g.:

http://www.amazon.com/Unstoppable-Gl...rBy=addOneStar
aren't they beautiful ?

What about:
The chilling stars : a cosmic view of climate change / Henrik Svensmark & Nigel Calder.
Nah! that's false too ... the sun, the stars. Not important! ... CO2 that's the answer.

Now - with batteries recharged I am ready for:
The Hockey Stick Illusion Climategate and the Corruption of Science
Montford, A. W. (Book - 2010)
and
The Great Global Warming BlunderHow Mother Nature Fooled the World's Top Climate Scientists
Spencer, Roy W. (Book - 2010)

I know, I know - they must be full of errors and mistakes - but it is THIS kind of mistakes I like :)

[Jason Lohner]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

Paul, it appears solar is not cool anymore. Not the in thing.

Here's a little something from my morning newspaper. Who'd have thought such a thing could happen?

Click Here...

I've considered putting a few solar panels on my garage/shop roof to power some of my tools. Problem is that it is too expensive and you don't get near the amount of power necessary to do anything useful. Until this problem is solved, solar will be a fringe energy source.

Personally I would LOVE to switch to solar. Free energy from the sun? who wouldn't want that? Unfortunately the technology isn't there yet and the current industry can't survive without having its hand held by the government.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

Paul, it appears solar is not cool anymore. Not the in thing.

Here's a little something from my morning newspaper. Who'd have thought such a thing could happen?

Click Here...

[Paul Beckwith]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

...scientist...engineering degree...What's the difference ?

I happen to have both. Engineering Physics and Physics, and now I am studying climatology.

Emil, what type of Engineering degree do you have; just wondering what makes you kind of closed minded about climate change (I reach this conclusion due to your use of terms like "joke" and "religion", these expressions tell me you know little about what you purport to know (like Vlad). How about reading "Understanding Weather and Climate, 5th Edition, by Aguado and Burt" for a start, then we can talk...

[Emil Smilovici]

Re: Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

I took my numbers from the American census : http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/acsbr09-14.pdf
We need reliable sources in order to have a real debate :)

...scientist ... engineering degree ....What's the difference ?
[Sarcasm off]

As it happens I have an engineering degree and I worked in engineering departments (as an engineer) in three different countries.
It never came to my mind to pretend I'm a scientist. I don't know of any of my colleagues claiming to be scientists for doing engineering work.

See .. that's the problem with the Global Warming joke/religion:
unreliable stats, confusing language.

[Felix Dumont]

Re : Re: Re : THE NEW One and Only Climate Change Whatever...

>20 millions in US only ?

did you take this number from PBDIN ?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-produce-too-m

18,000/year-
yeah in about 110 years you'll get your number.

Maybe you'll agree once with good ol' Bill:
"We face a critical shortfall of skilled scientists ..."

As for the less skilled ones - getting some "incentive" funds from Al Gore - that's the way to go!

I took my numbers from the American census : http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/acsbr09-14.pdf
We need reliable sources in order to have a real debate :)
This is the number of people with a science or engineering degree, as required by the petition.

Thanks Bob for the additionnal infos, I'm not surprised at all.