Wycc 2011

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Wycc 2011

Mr. Harvey,

You points are ridiculous and completely miss the point.

Ms. Jin would be very happy in the past to consult CFC Executives on how to organize successful CYCC and other junior events. With the way CFC was treating her, now I am not so sure anymore.

Even Hal Bond and Patrick McDonald came forward and asked if Mr. Jin would like to help organizing Pan-American event in Canada. Why do you think they did that?

She declined for obvious reason.

Ms. Jin showed that, you just need the right people and chess can be very successful in Canada. Unfortunately CFC lacks these kind of people in it’s office at the moment.

You and Ms Jin helped to run a highly successful cycc event this year. Good for you, except as many have commented it was, as ever, a rip-off for those parents that see their beloved children as the be-all and end-all of Canadian chess, if not the world. There is nothing new here. It has been happening for years, as the CFC used the cash cow to subsidize the adult events.

Following quote from your post proves, that people like you CFC is not moving in the right direction. Keep up the good work on leading CFC to it’s bright future. I am sure Mr. Gillanders and its followers will completely agree with you.

There is nothing new here. .

I agree with you only on this one. With the way CFC is going, there is nothing new here.

And how many successful CYCC events, have you organized in the past? (and I am not even asking most successful in CFC history!)

Its time for CFC to admit their wrong doing and correct its mistakes.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Wycc 2011

Ms. Jin showed that, you just need the right people and chess can be very successful in Canada. Unfortunately CFC lacks these kind of people in it’s office at the moment.

The Ottawa group showed that it was possible to organize the CYCC and CO with a lot of success back in 2007 :p The manual How-to-Do was published at http://monroi.com/chess-tournaments/...urnaments.html

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: Wycc 2011

The Ottawa group showed that it was possible to organize the CYCC and CO with a lot of success back in 2007 :p The manual How-to-Do was published at http://monroi.com/chess-tournaments/...urnaments.html

Hi Egidijus,

Gread find. :D

Thanks for pointing this out to CFC Executives. They should take note.

Chief 2011 CYCCC organizer Jin Diaxing did this without any manuals!

[Aman Hambleton]

Re: Wycc 2011

Mr. Jin Diaxin paid for it! She organized the most succesfull CYCC in history of Canadian Chess, and it came directly from her funds. :D

lol what :D

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Wycc 2011

No one is saying that winning isn't important. All the kids that my city sent forward won some games (our lowest score was 3.5). Not saying that's a great result, but it was still above the expected result :)

You wrote : "WYCC is not about winning medals. I think it's about giving these kids chess memories that they'll have for years to come."
If that does not mean that winning is not important, I wonder what that meant. You seem to have little understanding of what "winning" means. We are not taking about individual games here. Anyone can win a chess game. It is about winning enough of them to be among the leaders. Of course, many of our kids just did not have the playing level to do any better, but I happen to believe that some of them did.

I want our kids to get much, much stronger, but I will never be disappointed that they did better than their chess rating suggested they would, especially when they are already out of their element (foreign country, big tournament, water park outside).

You make a valiant effort at finding excuses but you come short. All the kids (except the Brazilians) were in "foreign country, big tournament, water park outside". And many of them had bigger jet lags to overcome. Having low expectations and ready made excuses will not help our youngsters do well and feel good about what they are doing.

[Denton Cockburn]

Re: Wycc 2011

You wrote : "WYCC is not about winning medals. I think it's about giving these kids chess memories that they'll have for years to come."
If that does not mean that winning is not important, I wonder what that meant. You seem to have little understanding of what "winning" means. We are not taking about individual games here. Anyone can win a chess game. It is about winning enough of them to be among the leaders. Of course, many of our kids just did not have the playing level to do any better, but I happen to believe that some of them did.


You make a valiant effort at finding excuses but you come short. All the kids (except the Brazilians) were in "foreign country, big tournament, water park outside". And many of them had bigger jet lags to overcome. Having low expectations and ready made excuses will not help our youngsters do well and feel good about what they are doing.

Well fine Jean, you have your opinion of how the kids did and so do I.
We clearly will not agree on what an acceptable result is for the kids that went to the WYCC. I am proud of the kids that came from Windsor, and they were all I had any responsibility for anyway.

If you'd like to be disappointed in the kids that you interacted with that went, that's your prerogative. I don't see any logical reason to think that Canada would produce more gifted chess kids, so I don't expect kids to do better just because they are from Canada (and in spite of their relatively low ranks).

This whole thread is seeming pointless. It's rather clear that those that are disappointed won't change their minds, and neither will those that are OK with some of the results.

Denton

[Rene Preotu]

Re: Wycc 2011

Board 1 from round 7 in U12. White (India's national junior champion) was getting mated but the result is a draw. I'm wondering why?

[Event "World Youth Chess Championship - U 12 Open"]
[Site "Caldas Novas - Goias - Brasil"]
[Date "2011.11.24"]
[Round "7"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Aravindh, Chithambaram Vr"]
[Black "Martinez Alcantara, Jose Eduardo"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A00"]
[WhiteElo "2262"]
[BlackElo "1995"]
[PlyCount "118"]
[EventDate "2011.11.18"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "BRA"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c3 Nf6 4. Be2 Bd7 5. d3 Nc6 6. O-O e6 7. h3 Be7 8. Nbd2 O-O 9. Nh2 e5 10. Ng4 Be6 11. Nc4 b5 12. Nce3 Qd7 13. Nxf6+ Bxf6 14. Nd5 Bxd5 15. exd5 Ne7 16. Bf3 g6 17. Be4 Bg7 18. f4 f5 19. Bf3 Rab8 20. Be3 Rfc8 21. Re1 Kh8 22. Qd2 c4 23. fxe5 dxe5 24. Bh6 Ng8 25. Bxg7+ Qxg7 26. dxc4 e4 27. Be2 bxc4 28. Rad1 Nf6 29. d6 Nd7 30. Qc2 Ne5 31. Rd4 Rc6 32. Red1 Rd8 33. Qa4 Rb6 34. b3 Nd3 35. Qxc4 Rbxd6 36. Bxd3 Rxd4 37. cxd4 exd3 38. Qxd3 Rd5 39. Qf3 Qd7 40. Qf4 Qd6 41. Qe3 Kg7 42. Qe2 a5 43. Qc4 Kh6 44. a3 f4 45. Rd3 Qe6 46. Qc1 Qe4 47. Qd1 Kg7 48. Kh2 h5 49. b4 axb4 50. axb4 Kh6 51. Qd2 g5 52. Rf3 Rxd4 53. Qf2 Qe5 54. b5 g4 55. hxg4 hxg4 56. Qh4+ Qh5 57. Qxh5+ Kxh5 58. Rb3 g3+ 59. Kh3 Rd1 1/2-1/2

You can replay the game from this link

[Alvah Mayo]

Re: Wycc 2011

You have no such Authority to mention my daughter's name, so better shut up!

Dora! Dora! Dora!

Victor does not require ANY permission or authority from you to mention your daughter's name or any other name for that matter. After all, this is Canada not a communist dictatorship. It is a tribute to Mr. Plotkin's character that he did not spit on your pathetic attempt at censorship.

[Rene Preotu]

Re: Wycc 2011

From KS blog
CURRENT MODEL: JUNIOR CHESS IN CANADA

I can fell the heat on my spine :D

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Wycc 2011

Well fine Jean, you have your opinion of how the kids did and so do I.
We clearly will not agree on what an acceptable result is for the kids that went to the WYCC. I am proud of the kids that came from Windsor, and they were all I had any responsibility for anyway.

If you'd like to be disappointed in the kids that you interacted with that went, that's your prerogative. I don't see any logical reason to think that Canada would produce more gifted chess kids, so I don't expect kids to do better just because they are from Canada (and in spite of their relatively low ranks).

This whole thread is seeming pointless. It's rather clear that those that are disappointed won't change their minds, and neither will those that are OK with some of the results.

You are putting words in my mouth : I am not disappointed with the kids. For once I think that Spraggett deserves to be quoted. Underlining is mine.

"The consensus is clear: the recent performance of the Canadian delegation sent to the World Youth Championships in Brazil was mediocre at best. This is, however, no way meant as a criticism of the enthusiasm and spirit of Canada's young representatives. Each did his or her very best.


However, it should be a wake-up call to those adults and parents who continue to support and mis-represent an outdated and profit-minded selection system that puts their personal agenda above the best interests of chess playing children. Canadian youth are no less talented than the youth of Russia, India, China or any of the other traditional chess powers in the world today. What is a pity is how the CFC has wasted and continues to waste all of that talent. Most of our youngsters stop playing chess after just a few short years....but this is not a reflection on the game of chess: instead it is stunning rebuke to those adults involved in running junior chess in Canada."

[Denton Cockburn]

Re: Wycc 2011

You are putting words in my mouth : I am not disappointed with the kids. For once I think that Spraggett deserves to be quoted. Underlining is mine.

"The consensus is clear: the recent performance of the Canadian delegation sent to the World Youth Championships in Brazil was mediocre at best. This is, however, no way meant as a criticism of the enthusiasm and spirit of Canada's young representatives. Each did his or her very best.


However, it should be a wake-up call to those adults and parents who continue to support and mis-represent an outdated and profit-minded selection system that puts their personal agenda above the best interests of chess playing children. Canadian youth are no less talented than the youth of Russia, India, China or any of the other traditional chess powers in the world today. What is a pity is how the CFC has wasted and continues to waste all of that talent. Most of our youngsters stop playing chess after just a few short years....but this is not a reflection on the game of chess: instead it is stunning rebuke to those adults involved in running junior chess in Canada."

Well I certainly agree with all of that.

The team didn't do well, that's pretty reasonable.
The individuals in the team (Windsor's at least), did well according to their rating.

The make-up of the team certainly could (and should) have been stronger to compete. Like Kevin, I think that 0/9 result was rather shocking.

Well, agreement after all, and they say chess players can't be reasonable.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Wycc 2011

Well fine Jean, you have your opinion of how the kids did and so do I.
We clearly will not agree on what an acceptable result is for the kids that went to the WYCC. I am proud of the kids that came from Windsor, and they were all I had any responsibility for anyway.

If you'd like to be disappointed in the kids that you interacted with that went, that's your prerogative. I don't see any logical reason to think that Canada would produce more gifted chess kids, so I don't expect kids to do better just because they are from Canada (and in spite of their relatively low ranks).

This whole thread is seeming pointless. It's rather clear that those that are disappointed won't change their minds, and neither will those that are OK with some of the results.

Denton

Denton, your arguments are very well made and I'm glad you aren't letting Jean get into your head. If Jean were correct in his assertion that winning is what is really important, and not just winning one game but winning titles, then 99% of chessplayers the world over would drop out of chess immediately. Because those 99% are NEVER going to win titles in chess!

Hey, Jean, if winning titles is all that's important, then I say all those kids should abandon chess and take up poker. Because in poker, you can be an average or even below-average player and still win titles. You (Jean) have many times ridiculed games like poker that have luck as a significant influence. You fail to recognize that luck is something that is present in our everyday lives, and thus for someone to focus too intently and seriously on a game such as chess in which luck plays no part actually IS A BAD INFLUENCE. I personally believe this is why so many serious chessplayers have serious mental / psychological problems, Fischer being only the most prominent example.

And it goes on and on, there is such a large proportion of serious chessplayers that have documentable psychological problems. Look at Paul Beckwith, he had to drop out of chess because he saw the problems of the vast majority of serious players (by his own recent admission), and he thinks now that he's out of it, he's mentally healthy. But he's not. There's a new chess game in his life, it's climate change, and he's absolutely convinced that there is no luck or chaos involved. According to him, if we keep making moves in this climate change game that we've been making, we are going to get checkmated. He simply can't conceive that there are other outside influences, and the direction of the "game" can be changed just as suddenly as if a White Queen were suddenly plopped on the board against all the known rules. To him, it simply MUST be a chess game, it MUST follow the rules he knows, and the outcome is clear. He's being deluded by his past deep and serious involvement in chess.

Denton, you must realize that Jean is a chess teacher and his motivation is clear here: he wants business for himself. He wants to be the one to teach these kids how winning titles is everything.

I ask everyone on Chesstalk to help keep Jean from getting into the heads of kids and teaching them this unhealthy perspective. Keep Jean away from these kids! Chess in NOT life, winning is NOT everything, and if it were, then Jean, you really haven't won anything worthwhile because if you take your philosophy to the extreme then only winning the World Championship makes playing chess worthwhile, and by that measure, you're just an also-ran and so you too should be abandoning chess by now.

It certainly explains why this guy is such a whiner. He's mentally deluded.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Wycc 2011

Board 1 from round 7 in U12. White (India's national junior champion) was getting mated but the result is a draw. I'm wondering why?

[Event "World Youth Chess Championship - U 12 Open"]
[Site "Caldas Novas - Goias - Brasil"]
[Date "2011.11.24"]
[Round "7"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Aravindh, Chithambaram Vr"]
[Black "Martinez Alcantara, Jose Eduardo"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A00"]
[WhiteElo "2262"]
[BlackElo "1995"]
[PlyCount "118"]
[EventDate "2011.11.18"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "BRA"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. c3 Nf6 4. Be2 Bd7 5. d3 Nc6 6. O-O e6 7. h3 Be7 8. Nbd2 O-O 9. Nh2 e5 10. Ng4 Be6 11. Nc4 b5 12. Nce3 Qd7 13. Nxf6+ Bxf6 14. Nd5 Bxd5 15. exd5 Ne7 16. Bf3 g6 17. Be4 Bg7 18. f4 f5 19. Bf3 Rab8 20. Be3 Rfc8 21. Re1 Kh8 22. Qd2 c4 23. fxe5 dxe5 24. Bh6 Ng8 25. Bxg7+ Qxg7 26. dxc4 e4 27. Be2 bxc4 28. Rad1 Nf6 29. d6 Nd7 30. Qc2 Ne5 31. Rd4 Rc6 32. Red1 Rd8 33. Qa4 Rb6 34. b3 Nd3 35. Qxc4 Rbxd6 36. Bxd3 Rxd4 37. cxd4 exd3 38. Qxd3 Rd5 39. Qf3 Qd7 40. Qf4 Qd6 41. Qe3 Kg7 42. Qe2 a5 43. Qc4 Kh6 44. a3 f4 45. Rd3 Qe6 46. Qc1 Qe4 47. Qd1 Kg7 48. Kh2 h5 49. b4 axb4 50. axb4 Kh6 51. Qd2 g5 52. Rf3 Rxd4 53. Qf2 Qe5 54. b5 g4 55. hxg4 hxg4 56. Qh4+ Qh5 57. Qxh5+ Kxh5 58. Rb3 g3+ 59. Kh3 Rd1 1/2-1/2

You can replay the game from this link

I see these possibilities:

1. draw offered with almost zero time on clock (I don't know if the time control was relevant at move 59)
2. it is U12 and anything can happen
(although I would not imagine those level of players missing such an obvious mate)
3. the pgn is wrong

[Rene Preotu]

Re: Wycc 2011

I think the pgn is wrong. Move 58. Rb3 should be 58. Rc3 and white can give a check and get a draw.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Wycc 2011

Well I certainly agree with all of that.

Well, agreement after all, and they say chess players can't be reasonable.

I don't like it. Something feels very wrong here. When things seem too good to be true, they are usually not true. :)