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Jesse I'm not going off topic as Bindi brought up female titles and a few other people posting in this thread have posted their own opinions on the matter as well.
Jordan what you have just stated shows there are also reasons for men to be offended, however these biases don't negate what I said about woman titles, there very existence suggests that woman are objectively worse players than men, unlike other sports where there are physical differences between male and female athletes there is no psychological reason why woman can't play as good of chess as men so comparing chess to physical sports I find to be bad analogy (its a brain game or a mind sport whatever people prefer to call it).
Bob Armstrong many low level targets exist already, Class E-A, and experts, however I don't believe simply being a female Class A player or expert suggests they are masters because of their gender.
Here is my recent post in the currently happening Spring Governors' On-line Meeting, concerning the motion to introduce lesser Canadian Women's titles:
As many of you know, I think the current separate women's parallel system is in fact now detrimental to women's chess, and is retarding its progress. I would abolish the whole separate rating system, and women's titles. However, in my attempts to discuss this option, I have been amazingly, to me, alone.
So given that the separate system exists, I do not understand the women players complaining about "cheap" titles. The whole system is "cheap". The Women's World Championship system is patently inferior to the World Chess Championship cycle.
But the argument is that it is needed to attract/keep women in chess, even if it is by diluted titles. Since we have diluted titles already, and a diluted system, it seems to me that the extension of diluted titles, as in this motion, complies with the whole logic behind this system.
Why would you not create low level targets as "rewards" if you believe it attracts/keeps women players. If that is right, then by all means the motion should pass.
But I personally will abstain, because I don't believe in the whole separate system, and so, on some occasions, like this, I decide not to participate in tinkering with it. I'll let those who believe in the system decide what "improves" it.
Bob Armstrong, GTCL/Ont CFC Governor
Where are the opinions of our female players in all of this? Why are there so many males fussing over what females need? Why not strike a committee of female players to look into the matter of what women/girls need from the CFC? If no one wants to serve on this committee, then that should tell you something; i.e. attention CFC governors - get on with something productive.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Where are the opinions of our female players in all of this? Why are there so many males fussing over what females need? Why not strike a committee of female players to look into the matter of what women/girls need from the CFC? If no one wants to serve on this committee, then that should tell you something; i.e. attention CFC governors - get on with something productive.
The CFC Women's Coordinator (who is in fact a woman) is the seconder of the motion currently being debated (or fussed about, as you may call it :) ).
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
What about contacting other federations to see what percentage of their adult and junior members are women/girls? If you find federations where the proportions are substantially higher than here, then go to school.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Or, you could just squabble about the matter, as per usual.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Re: Separate Women's System - Accomplish Its Goals??
The "value added" adjectives which are used to make a point on this forum always make me smile. Too bad the software won't automatically highlight them in red.
The CFC Women's Coordinator (who is in fact a woman) is the seconder of the motion currently being debated (or fussed about, as you may call it :) ).
Despite being male, I believe I am entitled to an opinion on this. But I do support women making the final decision on it.
At the moment, it does seem that women by and large, support the separate, parallel women's system, as does our own CFC Women's Coordinator. The top 100 women players seem to accept the inferior Women's World Championship cycle (when compared to the World Championship cycle).
My goal is to generate worthwhile debate on the issue, and get them to change their minds. I agree that it is their decision.
But the funds for this separate system come from the general chess pot, and so it may be that at some point, the integrated chess community will feel they should make the final decision.
Despite being male, I believe I am entitled to an opinion on this. But I do support women making the final decision on it.
At the moment, it does seem that women by and large, support the separate, parallel women's system, as does our own CFC Women's Coordinator. The top 100 women players seem to accept the inferior Women's World Championship cycle (when compared to the World Championship cycle).
My goal is to generate worthwhile debate on the issue, and get them to change their minds. I agree that it is their decision.
But the funds for this separate system come from the general chess pot, and so it may be that at some point, the integrated chess community will feel they should make the final decision.
Bob A
Do I detect something being expressed at last that is the largest source of so much male interest? :)
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
The CFC Women's Coordinator (who is in fact a woman) is the seconder of the motion currently being debated (or fussed about, as you may call it :) ).
I'm not sure I understand your point, Kevin. Are you implying that the Women's Co-ordinator has done her homework and that her support of the motion reflects what female chessplayers want?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
What about contacting other federations to see what percentage of their adult and junior members are women/girls? If you find federations where the proportions are substantially higher than here, then go to school.
How about contacting the organizers in Windsor where 40 to 50% of the kids in advanced classes are girls and there is a yearly tournament where hundreds of girls take part. Ten percent of last year's CYCC was from Windsor and area despite the fact that we make up less than 1% of Canada's population and despite the fact that it required an expensive trip to BC in order to play.
How about contacting the organizers in Windsor where 40 to 50% of the kids in advanced classes are girls and there is a yearly tournament where hundreds of girls take part. Ten percent of last year's CYCC was from Windsor and area despite the fact that we make up less than 1% of Canada's population and despite the fact that it required an expensive trip to BC in order to play.
Girls are always very present in kids tournaments (it's not rare to see nearly as many girls as boys). The problem is that they quit in high school (much more than boys).
It's good to see there are lots of parents in Windsor with enough money to send their kids at the other side of the country (but I don't think we can draw any other conclusion from that since there's not a single junior from Windsor in the CFC top 100 juniors) .
Last edited by Felix Dumont; Thursday, 4th April, 2013, 02:20 PM.
I'm not sure I understand your point, Kevin. Are you implying that the Women's Co-ordinator has done her homework and that her support of the motion reflects what female chessplayers want?
I'd suggest visiting the CFC Discussion Board and viewing the online meeting's relevant thread, rather than guessing what's going on in the way of *squabbling*, Peter.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
It's good to see there are lots of parents in Windsor with enough money to send their kids at the other side of the country (but I don't think we can draw any other conclusion from that since there's not a single junior from Windsor in the CFC top 100 juniors) .
That comment betrays a certain attitude that is quite troubling.
Windsor is one of the most depressed areas in the country but the kids do like to play chess.
Number two, number eight and number fourteen look awfully familiar. It should be number twelve and fifteen since we are missing a girl who played at WYCC three years ago.
Re: Separate Women's System - Accomplish Its Goals??
Hi Peter:
Felix Dumont, Quebec CFC Governor, has done his own survey of women players, and they do not support the Women's Coordinator position. So it appears the women are divided on this one, but the Women's Coordinator is still going ahead anyways.
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