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CBC article re "pros" of vaccination. Interestingly, vaccination seems even more effective in Canada than the U.S., maybe due to different adherence levels to layered protection practices.
It seems darn COVID still has a chance against vaccination, but the real "win" via vaccination is reduced death rate. And in the end, reducing death is a most wonderful "win" for humanity.
Ah, I see the debate continues. Thanks for this article from CBC, I also signed up for the weekly update.
Yes, the vaccines are not 100% protection against COVID, but definitely strong protection against death and/or hospitalization. It still remains a numbers game, reducing the spread so that our health care systems are not overwhelmed. I would have liked the article to focus on hospitalization versus hospital capacity. How close are we to another potential shutdown?
If anyone has data across Canada, COVID hospitalization numbers by province versus capacity, compared to levels and timing of lockdowns, I would love to see it. Eventually we should reach a point were vaccination rates plus natural immunities allow us to keep everything open and go about our normal lives. Just when that is is the 64 million $ question.
Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Sunday, 12th September, 2021, 12:00 PM.
Ok, so before the Big Bang, all the matter and energy in the universe is compressed into a tiny point surrounded by a "void" which is a lack of both time and space (or lack of as Einstein proposed a single entity known as spacetime).
No. There is no "before" the Big Bang. The Big Bang is the beginning. There is no matter/energy "before" the Big Bang, for if there were then there would need to be an explanation ad infinitum. There is no time when nothing exists, but there is a beginning to time/substance which appears miraculously out of nothing. Once time appears from nothing it returns to nothing, the only thing permanent (substance) is time itself. There was a first time, the goal of humanity ought to be to ensure that there will not be a last.
It still remains a numbers game, reducing the spread so that our health care systems are not overwhelmed.
It is an unconsionable tragedy in all of this that hospitals are refusing certain seriously needed and potentially life-saving surguries so as to be able to keep beds open for people who refuse to get vaccinated and might contract COVID. There may soon come a time when authorities place those who refuse vaccinations without medical justification at the back of the health care line. "Sorry, you are sick and may die, but you refused a vaccine for no good reason and there is a person who has heart surgery scheduled so there is no bed for you. You must understand that it would not be fair to the person needing heart surgery to be replaced in the queue by yourself who could easily have prevented this in the first place." I am not saying that I advocate this approach, I am saying that I would not be surprized if such things begin to happen and are called for by the masses who do get vaccinated.
Ah, I see the debate continues. Thanks for this article from CBC, I also signed up for the weekly update.
Yes, the vaccines are not 100% protection against COVID, but definitely strong protection against death and/or hospitalization. It still remains a numbers game, reducing the spread so that our health care systems are not overwhelmed. I would have liked the article to focus on hospitalization versus hospital capacity. How close are we to another potential shutdown?
If anyone has data across Canada, COVID hospitalization numbers by province versus capacity, compared to levels and timing of lockdowns, I would love to see it. Eventually we should reach a point were vaccination rates plus natural immunities allow us to keep everything open and go about our normal lives. Just when that is is the 64 million $ question.
"but definitely strong protection against death and/or hospitalization"
This is incorrect, the vaccines have never stopped infection or transmission and were not meant to. They were supposedly designed to keep symptoms
from progressing to more severe stages of the disease. The delta variant is now 99.1% of virues that exist with the original virus the vaccines were engineered for
are long gone. So at present the vaccines are obsolete and useless.
Furthermore, they have a horrendous safety profile.
It is an unconsionable tragedy in all of this that hospitals are refusing certain seriously needed and potentially life-saving surguries so as to be able to keep beds open for people who refuse to get vaccinated and might contract COVID. There may soon come a time when authorities place those who refuse vaccinations without medical justification at the back of the health care line. "Sorry, you are sick and may die, but you refused a vaccine for no good reason and there is a person who has heart surgery scheduled so there is no bed for you. You must understand that it would not be fair to the person needing heart surgery to be replaced in the queue by yourself who could easily have prevented this in the first place." I am not saying that I advocate this approach, I am saying that I would not be surprized if such things begin to happen and are called for by the masses who do get vaccinated.
The vaccinated at this stage are no different than the unvaccinated. I like this quote "You vaccine cultists swore up and down that your vaccine would keep you safe from the virus. What happened? Rather than admit that you were lied to you now want to pretend that unvaccinated people need to get the same injection in order for yours to work? Absolutely not."
Sid , you are ridiculous, who are in the hospitals, the unvaccinated, and you say you are scientific, you are a buffoon and I'm glad you were never president of the CFC,
This is incorrect, the vaccines have never stopped infection or transmission and were not meant to. They were supposedly designed to keep symptoms
from progressing to more severe stages of the disease. The delta variant is now 99.1% of virues that exist with the original virus the vaccines were engineered for
are long gone. So at present the vaccines are obsolete and useless.
Furthermore, they have a horrendous safety profile.
Of course the vaccines were meant to stop infections, and thus by extension transmission. Unless you think the whole thing is a worldwide conspiracy.
Yes, the Delta variant came after the vaccines, but it is a variant of the original virus. By definition, its genetic makeup would be very close to the original virus. So I would expect a good probability of being effective against variants, but maybe somewhat less. This is exactly what we are seeing. Still effective enough to prevent most hospitalizations and deaths.
Sid , you are ridiculous, who are in the hospitals, the unvaccinated, and you say you are scientific, you are a buffoon and I'm glad you were never president of the CFC,
You tell me who is in the hospitals. The government does not give out proper information as per the health care workers at hospitals as per my previous post. i am glad I was never president of the CFC also, I never ran for that position. Sorry if you find the idea that many governments lie including Canada and the US as a radical thought.
Do you want me to list all of the Canadian Dr's that share my views? They are also all "ridiculous buffoons" correct?
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Monday, 13th September, 2021, 12:44 AM.
Of course the vaccines were meant to stop infections, and thus by extension transmission. Unless you think the whole thing is a worldwide conspiracy.
Yes, the Delta variant came after the vaccines, but it is a variant of the original virus. By definition, its genetic makeup would be very close to the original virus. So I would expect a good probability of being effective against variants, but maybe somewhat less. This is exactly what we are seeing. Still effective enough to prevent most hospitalizations and deaths.
While I do not agree with the majority of what Sid has said here, especially his views on masks, I do have to correct you Bob, because on this one point Sid is correct. In an ideal world, the vaccines would stop infection and transmission, but we are nowhere near that ideal world. The vaccines were meant above all to stop the virus from taking over the host, i.e. to stop hospitalizations and deaths. Even if you asked the scientists who formulated the vaccines, they would tell you the vaccines do not stop infection. The virus still enters the host and begins to take over. The vaccines do not eradicate all traces of the virus from the host, at least not for quite some time. Vaccinated people can still get breakthrough infections, and can still get what is called "long covid", which is the persistence of symptoms over long periods of time.
I do believe that transmission of the virus can still come from the vaccinated. Maybe not to the same EXTENT as from the unvaccinated, but still they can transmit the virus.
When I'm out in public, I wear a mask and even if i knew all the people I'm around are fully vaccinated, I would and will still wear a mask and socially distance, because I believe I can still get the virus from them. I would advise all ChessTalk readers to do the same, but in the end it's an individual decision.
Of course the vaccines were meant to stop infections, and thus by extension transmission. Unless you think the whole thing is a worldwide conspiracy.
Yes, the Delta variant came after the vaccines, but it is a variant of the original virus. By definition, its genetic makeup would be very close to the original virus. So I would expect a good probability of being effective against variants, but maybe somewhat less. This is exactly what we are seeing. Still effective enough to prevent most hospitalizations and deaths.
No, it is no longer effective at all. You are now lecturing me on exactly how a virus evolves? You don't know the first thing about it. The delta variant has rendered the vaccine useless and obsolete.
The vaccine in the most heavily vaccinated countries that report reliable data showing low efficacy Israel was supposed to be the flagship for Pfizer. Initially, the results were promising but unfortunately, the Delta Variant rendered the vaccine useless. The same is true in the UK. Gibraltar is another example of where the vaccines have been an utter failure.
No. There is no "before" the Big Bang. The Big Bang is the beginning. There is no matter/energy "before" the Big Bang, for if there were then there would need to be an explanation ad infinitum. There is no time when nothing exists, but there is a beginning to time/substance which appears miraculously out of nothing. Once time appears from nothing it returns to nothing, the only thing permanent (substance) is time itself. There was a first time, the goal of humanity ought to be to ensure that there will not be a last.
Ok, this is your viewpoint, but it is not provable that "before" the Big Bang, there was no matter or energy.
In the article on Gravitational Singularity in Wikipedia, the opening paragraph states;
A gravitational singularity, spacetime singularity or simply singularity is a location in spacetime where the density and gravitational field of a celestial body is predicted to become infinite by general relativity in a way that does not depend on the coordinate system. The quantities used to measure gravitational field strength are the scalar invariant curvatures of spacetime, which includes a measure of the density of matter. Since such quantities become infinite at the singularity point, the laws of normal spacetime break down.
And in the second paragraph it states:
....Physicists are undecided whether the prediction of singularities means that they actually exist (or existed at the start of the Big Bang), or that current knowledge is insufficient to describe what happens at such extreme densities.
So in fact, matter and energy seem to go to infinity. We simply can't know what that really means.
Now, in my "zooming out" scenario, let's assume you are God and you can zoom out your view of your creation just like game creators can zoom out the view of their gaming worlds. So you zoom out and you zoom out until our current universe, as it is right now 92 billion light years in diameter, is but a tiny speck, not even visible or discernable. That speck contains all the energy and matter, including all the Dark Matter (which is 95% of our universe yet is not visible to us).
From this viewpoint, the speck that is our current universe could be deduced to have 'infinite' matter and energy. Who is to say it couldn't? We don't know. From such a viewpoint, any "viewer" might have totally different frames of reference.
Sid,
One of the points in the above letter is:
4.) SPREAD – Vaccinated individuals spread COVID-19 just as much—or more—than unvaccinated individuals
I think what they are suggesting is that when an unvaccinated person gets infected, he/she either succumbs to the illness or eliminates the virus with relatively robust natural immunity, while when a vaccinated person encounters the virus, he/she does not die or even suffer from it, but only manages to keep the virus under check, unfortunately mutating and spreading... This is a scary scenario, and I hope it is not true...
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Sunday, 12th September, 2021, 08:22 PM.
Sid,
One of the points in the above letter is:
4.) SPREAD – Vaccinated individuals spread COVID-19 just as much—or more—than unvaccinated individuals
I think what they are suggesting is that when an unvaccinated person gets infected, he/she either succumbs to the illness or eliminates the virus with relatively robust natural immunity, while when a vaccinated person re-encounters the virus, he/she does not die or even suffer from it, but only manages to keep the virus under check, unfortunately mutating and spreading... This is a scary scenario, and I hope it is not true...
Unfortunately, this scenario is already played out in Israel. I will send you a private message about something much scarier. I would be interested in your view on it.
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