COVID-19 ... how we cope :)

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism's Platform

We agree with Pargat about the problem of modern representative democracy. Every 4 years, we create an authoritarian government over ourselves. It then takes on a life of its own, and follows their own (Directed by the Oligarchs) agenda, not that of the elector. And the elector, to object, has to publicly demonstrate, hope for support from mainstream media, owned by Oligarchs, and otherwise is powerless. Going to your MP is of no use anymore, because of government centralization around the Prime Minister. The only ones exercising power are the PM and the Cabinet........ordinary MP's in their petitions get nowhere unless there is central support.

But we go at this problem differently. We would turn the world into a modern "collection of Villages". We would abolish "nations". Instead would be created "Local Political Units (LPU's")......for example some of these might be existing municipalities. The Marxist Party of Ontario proposes as a first step, downloading to the municipalities all Ontario provincial powers possible. The Provincial Government then becomes the handmaiden of the LPU's. Where an LPU cannot handle a task on its own, then it forms a coalition with like-minded LPU's and gives that coalition body "temporary" power to handle the task, and then the coalition body dissolves if possible.

This brings the representative within the knowledge and control of the electors, since the basic political unit is very small.

As to elections within the LPU's, there will be room to look at how new technology may be able to incorporate into democracy, ongoing issue referenda, decided upon by the new "direct democracy".

What do CT'ers think of this substantial re-thinking of human self-governance?

Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)
Bob Armstrong, Coordinator

P.S. Sorry to hijack a bit, temporarily, the COVID-19 thread, but we felt Pargat's question is a most important one (Outside of COVID) and deserved a good reply. Pargat - do you want to move this discussion to a new separate thread? If so, I would be happy to institute it: The Problem of Human Self-Governance.

[Brad Thomson]

I have long been of the opinion that the existence of political Parties is undemocratic and should be done away with. Everyone should run as an Independent. This is actually the way America was intended to be and was in the early beginning.

[Brad Thomson]

Back in the fabulous 1960s there were lots of Armageddon tunes, but there were also enlightenment tunes as well. Those of us who were children of the 1960s are very fortunate persons, we are old enough to remember those days, but we were too young to fully participate in them... :)

| ♒︎ - [Extended] - YouTube

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

[


Ok, Egidijus, we are talking about science, that is a good thing!

Here are the results of this study

Deaths
Control 10 Ivermectin 3

Mech Vent

Control 10 Ivermectin 4

Their conclusion, it doesn’t work, What do you think??

You even cited yourself (bold is yours):

"our study was not designed to assess the effects of ivermectin on mortality from COVID-19."

Seems those doctors studied better statistics and medicine than you - correlation vs causation.

[Sid Belzberg]

You even cited yourself (bold is yours):





Seems those doctors studied better statistics and medicine than you - correlation vs causation.

It was initially designed for mortality and then changed the primary endpoints when it did not fit their anti IVM narrative. Conveniently they also excluded the
stats for mechanical ventilation statistics which is the single most important barometer of the progression of the severity of the disease. Some of these Doctors studied scientific fraud better than I :-).
But as usual, you choose not to critically think about anything. Not possible for a blow bag that pontificates about things he knows nothing about.

[Neil Frarey]

Just as one example: what % of people who voted for Trudeau in the last election actually knew he would enact a vaccine mandate for truckers? The true number is probably in single digits.

I did. Not this exact issue of Pandemic-ness but generally speaking I knew he is very capable.

You forget his great family legacy. As I reminded Jesse Watters of Fox News, Justin comes from a family having had to use very similar 'heavy hand' ... re: FLQ.

Ironic that these truckers should have taken their fight up with Justin's father's accomplishment ... Charter of Rights and Freedoms, ha!

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

It was initially designed for mortality and then changed the primary endpoints when it did not fit their anti IVM narrative. Conveniently they also excluded the
stats for mechanical ventilation statistics which is the single most important barometer of the progression of the severity of the disease. Some of these Doctors studied scientific fraud better than I :-).
But as usual, you choose not to critically think about anything. Not possible for a blow bag that pontificates about things he knows nothing about.

Their initial study primary objective did not mentioned anything about mortality, as you claim. Do you have their draft? :)

"To assess the effectiveness of ivermectin in preventing progression of Covid-19 to severe disease (clinical stage 4 or 5), which is defined as severe pneumonia requiring oxygen supplement or critically ill requiring intensive care."
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/h...w#StudyPageTop
dated June 8/10, 2021 (just when the study began)

Same objective is in the article.


I don't see that they excluded anything you mention:

"There were no significant differences between ivermectin and control groups for all the prespecified secondary outcomes (Table 2). Among patients who progressed to severe disease, the time from study enrollment to the onset of deterioration was similar across ivermectin and control groups (mean [SD], 3.2 [2.4] days vs 2.9 [1.8] days; mean difference, 0.3; 95% CI, −0.6 to 1.2; P = .51). Mechanical ventilation occurred in 4 patients (1.7%) in the ivermectin group vs 10 (4.0%) in the control group (RR, 0.41; 95% CI, 0.13 to 1.30; P = .17) and intensive care unit admission in 6 (2.5%) vs 8 (3.2%) (RR, 0.78; 95% CI, 0.27 to 2.20; P = .79). The 28-day in-hospital mortality rate was similar for the ivermectin and control groups (3 [1.2%] vs 10 [4.0%]; RR, 0.31; 95% CI, 0.09 to 1.11; P = .09), as was the length of hospital stay after enrollment (mean [SD], 7.7 [4.4] days vs 7.3 [4.3] days; mean difference, 0.4; 95% CI, −0.4 to 1.3; P = .38)."

What I see, that you try to pull these data to your narrative.

[Erik Malmsten]

Democratic Marxism's Platform

We agree with Pargat about the problem of modern representative democracy. Every 4 years, we create an authoritarian government over ourselves. It then takes on a life of its own, and follows their own (Directed by the Oligarchs) agenda, not that of the elector. And the elector, to object, has to publicly demonstrate, hope for support from mainstream media, owned by Oligarchs, and otherwise is powerless. Going to your MP is of no use anymore, because of government centralization around the Prime Minister. The only ones exercising power are the PM and the Cabinet........ordinary MP's in their petitions get nowhere unless there is central support.

But we go at this problem differently. We would turn the world into a modern "collection of Villages". We would abolish "nations". Instead would be created "Local Political Units (LPU's")......for example some of these might be existing municipalities. The Marxist Party of Ontario proposes as a first step, downloading to the municipalities all Ontario provincial powers possible. The Provincial Government then becomes the handmaiden of the LPU's. Where an LPU cannot handle a task on its own, then it forms a coalition with like-minded LPU's and gives that coalition body "temporary" power to handle the task, and then the coalition body dissolves if possible.

This brings the representative within the knowledge and control of the electors, since the basic political unit is very small.

As to elections within the LPU's, there will be room to look at how new technology may be able to incorporate into democracy, ongoing issue referenda, decided upon by the new "direct democracy".

What do CT'ers think of this substantial re-thinking of human self-governance?

Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)
Bob Armstrong, Coordinator

P.S. Sorry to hijack a bit, temporarily, the COVID-19 thread, but we felt Pargat's question is a most important one (Outside of COVID) and deserved a good reply. Pargat - do you want to move this discussion to a new separate thread? If so, I would be happy to institute it: The Problem of Human Self-Governance.

There are 100s of bills argued about every week of seating in the three levels levels of government. The supporting documentation for each bill is massive. Too many, and too complex to allow direct citizen voting who have their own jobs, families and hobbies to occupy their time.

Well, Bob, now you're switching from communism to eco-anarchism. Communism centralizes power in the capital, dictatorship of the party bureaucrats and military, resources get stolen by the capital and the regions suffer.

Local power, as advocated in the City of Toronto in the 1970s. Back then I was a member of the Ward Six Community Association who, for example, proposed (to reduce violence) that police officers had to live in the community they worked in (Yet, even today, because of political oversight, police officers prefer to be hired elsewhere). There was a strong voice for poor and working class voters at council and the quick-profit seeking developers could only get their way by appealing to the province's OMB. The province then tried to destroy this base of people's representation by creating the megacity Metro government, with wealthier suburban councillors out numbering the reps from the old city of Toronto. Then the province cut the number of councillors in half.

The feds get most of their tax income from the big cities. They balanced their budget by cutting payments to the provinces who in turn balanced their budgets by cutting payments to cities. The province downloaded expensive social programs to the municipalities, with few ways of increasing income, creating budget deficits.

There will always be a need for some provincial/ federal oversight such as regulation of highways, electricity, and international trade.

If we go to a collection of villages, to what extent will differences be allowed? Gay bars are OK in Toronto, but not Oakville? Blacks immigrants will be encouraged in Rexdale, but not in Forest Hill? No abortions allowed in London? Only Italian restaurants in Vaughan? Only Chinese street signs in Markham? No Maple Leaf fans in Montreal?

The problem of Human Self-Governance is fairly balancing the interest of different geographical regions, economic industries, and social groupings. Allow for peaceful dissenting voices to be heard and for compromises and changes to be made. People need to be able to vote out corrupt, unlistening dogmatic politicians at all levels. Too many municipal politicians are councillors for life.

[Pargat Perrer]

P.S. Sorry to hijack a bit, temporarily, the COVID-19 thread, but we felt Pargat's question is a most important one (Outside of COVID) and deserved a good reply. Pargat - do you want to move this discussion to a new separate thread? If so, I would be happy to institute it: The Problem of Human Self-Governance.

Yes, Bob, good idea, let's move it to a separate thread.

[Sid Belzberg]

Their initial study primary objective did not mentioned anything about mortality, as you claim. Do you have their draft? :)

"To assess the effectiveness of ivermectin in preventing progression of Covid-19 to severe disease (clinical stage 4 or 5), which is defined as severe pneumonia requiring oxygen supplement or critically ill requiring intensive care."
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/h...w#StudyPageTop
dated June 8/10, 2021 (just when the study began)

Same objective is in the article.


I don't see that they excluded anything you mention:

"There were no significant differences between ivermectin and control groups for all the prespecified secondary outcomes (Table 2). Among patients who progressed to severe disease, the time from study enrollment to the onset of deterioration was similar across ivermectin and control groups (mean [SD], 3.2 [2.4] days vs 2.9 [1.8] days; mean difference, 0.3; 95% CI, −0.6 to 1.2; P = .51). Mechanical ventilation occurred in 4 patients (1.7%) in the ivermectin group vs 10 (4.0%) in the control group (RR, 0.41; 95% CI, 0.13 to 1.30; P = .17) and intensive care unit admission in 6 (2.5%) vs 8 (3.2%) (RR, 0.78; 95% CI, 0.27 to 2.20; P = .79). The 28-day in-hospital mortality rate was similar for the ivermectin and control groups (3 [1.2%] vs 10 [4.0%]; RR, 0.31; 95% CI, 0.09 to 1.11; P = .09), as was the length of hospital stay after enrollment (mean [SD], 7.7 [4.4] days vs 7.3 [4.3] days; mean difference, 0.4; 95% CI, −0.4 to 1.3; P = .38)."

What I see, that you try to pull these data to your narrative.

You think regurgitating bullshit helps your argument? The blunt fact is that they included deaths and mechanical ventilation in the data and the data shows huge reduction in both deaths and progression to mechanical ventilation in the treatment group.
In almost every other IVM study these are the two metrics that
are focused on. HTTPS://IVmmeta.com. But not here as it ruined their narrative.

https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD/s...66882328727554

[Neil Frarey]

No Maple Leaf fans in Montreal?

Brave to wear a Maple Leaf jersey in Montreal these days, ha!

I wore my Bruins jersey a couple of times to the old Montreal Forum ... barely made it out alive!

The problem of Human Self-Governance is fairly balancing the interest of different geographical regions, economic industries, and social groupings. Allow for peaceful dissenting voices to be heard and for compromises and changes to be made. People need to be able to vote out corrupt, unlistening dogmatic politicians at all levels. Too many municipal politicians are councillors for life.

Yep!


...

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Pargat (& others interested in dealing with this political side issue):

I just started a new thread called "Human Self-Governance", to take this issue out of this COVID-19 thread.

Please continue the discussion on this point there now.

Thanks.


~ Bob (T-S/P)

[Sid Belzberg]

https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/physicians-and-medical-scientists-declare-covid-national-emergency-over

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-...133609778.html

[Neil Frarey]

Apple drops mask mandate in most US stores ...

https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/apple-dr...112525582.html

[Sid Belzberg]

p.s. If your position is that hundreds, if not thousands, of scientists and physicians have been bullied by Big Pharma into being afraid to acknowledge Ivermectin as a miraculous treatment for covid, then your position is ludicrous.

Peter, here is a well-referenced article from a Brazilian friend of mine who is an author, filmmaker, Class A chess player, and by the way is very left-leaning in his political views. As always he does a great job in elucidating very complex issues. I dare say, much better than I have been able to in this forum.


https://www.francesoir.fr/opinions-t...od-good-german


Here is another enlightening article

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/art...ts_818382.html

And for the more technically inclined this article

https://iceni.substack.com/p/covid-1...utm_medium=web