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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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Wow, that graph shows a very regular cycle, amazing.
Sid, about Greenland .... is it possible that Greenland and Antarctica were both near to the equator 2 million years ago, and some regions now near the equator were at the poles, all of this occurring due to some massive shift of the Earth's crust?
If that was the case, then even 2 million years ago the poles still could still have had miles-think icecaps like Greenland and Antarctica have now.
So the difference in our current era could be that the ice caps are melting, which is something that maybe has never happened on Earth since the ice caps first appeared, however long ago that was.
From Wiki:
Quaternary glaciation
The warming trend following the Last Glacial Maximum, since about 20,000 years ago, has resulted in a sea level rise by about 130 metres (427 ft). This warming trend subsided about 6,000 years ago, and sea level has been comparatively stable since the Neolithic. The present interglacial period (the Holocene climatic optimum) has been stable and warm compared to the preceding ones, which were interrupted by numerous cold spells lasting hundreds of years. This stability might have allowed the Neolithic Revolution and by extension human civilization.[39]
Based on orbital models, the cooling trend initiated about 6,000 years ago will continue for another 23,000 years.[40]
(So it seems that we may be doing a good thing by increasing CO2 and delaying the next glacial period, which could cripple our agriculture, as glacial periods of the past did inhibit vegetation seriously... trying to relieve your climate-anxiety, Bob A!)
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Sunday, 11th December, 2022, 10:30 PM.
"The reason the UN's spectacularly mad climate agenda caught on is because it's unadulterated ideology. Ideology blocks all logic, science, reason & truth. This is why climate evangelists blindly follow the fake crisis narrative. It's new age climate porn."
Last week's participation was fairly steady, given the prior week, and the average so far this year.
We have a core group of CT'ers following.
Climate Change Thread “Responses”
There are lots of climate change articles out there, both on negative anthropogenic climate change, and negative natural climate change.
This thread encourages CT'ers on all sides to re-post here, as responses, the climate change posts of interest they see elsewhere. Overall, ChessTalker's have been quite active here in posting “responses” and it seems that chessplayers across Canada re wanting information on climate change, a challenge unlike any our species has ever faced before.
Note: I personally, as the thread originator, am trying to post a new response at least every 2nd day, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is great that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.
The Pressing Climate Change Issue
The core issue:
Building a sense of URGENCY on this issue in society. We must realize that we cannot kick it down the road any longer!
The public is aware of the climate change issue.......
BUT.....
climate activists must find strategies to “AWAKEN” the public to the “urgency”.
It is expected, though somewhat disheartening, to see other negative issues of the day climb immediately to the top of the public's agenda, with climate change being sometimes substantially downgraded in importance. We will all pay for this.........
The Time Line
Nature's Tipping point is estimated to be, on current trajectory, only 9 years away (Around Jan. 1, 2031). Capping the temperature rise at only 1.5 degrees Celsius (the original international target) is now impossible (UN Climate Change Panel's most recent report). Their position is that the problem at this time is mostly due to human activity, and that radical change in our method of living is the only way to avoid this rising, very problematic, temperature. UNCCP noted that current government deadlines were totally insufficient to solve the problem. CO 2 must be capped by 2025! Also, it has now become necessary to add in the process of CO 2 “removal”, along with “eliminating” the spewing of greenhouse gases into our atmosphere by human activity. And it has now become clear that the more deadly greenhouse gas is Methane, and countries' last year agreement on its reduction are on the table this year again!
Our window of opportunity is fast closing.
The Large Picture Solutions
Can we come up with at least one viable suggestion of some impressive, radical thing that might wake up the public, that we could then put out there to other concerned climate activists?
Negative “Natural” Climate Change
This thread has had a number of CT'ers arguing for Natural Climate Change, and arguing that the human economic activity contribution to negative climate change is negligible. We are just in one of Nature's long warming cycles.
We would encourage everyone to consider the materials being presented, and then see whether they in any way change your perspective, if you are an adherent of negative Anthropogenic climate change. Whether you change anything, or not, your assessment of the evidence would be most welcome in this thread.
CT'ers' Local Actions on Climate Change
You can do something! When you like one of this thread's links on an aspect of climate change, spread the news by posting it to your social media accounts and other Websites/Discussion Boards you participate in!
Last week's participation was down, given the prior week, and the average so far this year. Response posts were low, which leads to low viewing.
Climate Change Thread “Responses”
There are lots of climate change articles out there, both on negative anthropogenic climate change, and negative natural climate change.
This thread encourages CT'ers on all sides to re-post here, as responses, the climate change posts of interest they see elsewhere. Overall, ChessTalker's have been quite active here in posting “responses” and it seems that chessplayers across Canada re wanting information on climate change, a challenge unlike any our species has ever faced before.
Note: I personally, as the thread originator, am trying to post a new response at least every 2nd day, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is great that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.
The Pressing Climate Change Issue
The core issue:
Building a sense of URGENCY on this issue in society. We must realize that we cannot kick it down the road any longer!
The public is aware of the climate change issue.......
BUT.....
climate activists must find strategies to “AWAKEN” the public to the “urgency”.
It is expected, though somewhat disheartening, to see other negative issues of the day climb immediately to the top of the public's agenda, with climate change being sometimes substantially downgraded in importance. We will all pay for this.........
The Time Line
Nature's Tipping point is estimated to be, on current trajectory, only 9 years away (Around Jan. 1, 2031). Capping the temperature rise at only 1.5 degrees Celsius (the original international target) is now impossible (UN Climate Change Panel's most recent report). Their position is that the problem at this time is mostly due to human activity, and that radical change in our method of living is the only way to avoid this rising, very problematic, temperature. UNCCP noted that current government deadlines were totally insufficient to solve the problem. CO 2 must be capped by 2025! Also, it has now become necessary to add in the process of CO 2 “removal”, along with “eliminating” the spewing of greenhouse gases into our atmosphere by human activity. And it has now become clear that the more deadly greenhouse gas is Methane, and countries' last year agreement on its reduction are on the table this year again!
Our window of opportunity is fast closing.
The Large Picture Solutions
Can we come up with at least one viable suggestion of some impressive, radical thing that might wake up the public, that we could then put out there to other concerned climate activists?
Negative “Natural” Climate Change
This thread has had a number of CT'ers arguing for Natural Climate Change, and arguing that the human economic activity contribution to negative climate change is negligible. We are just in one of Nature's long warming cycles.
We would encourage everyone to consider the materials being presented, and then see whether they in any way change your perspective, if you are an adherent of negative Anthropogenic climate change. Whether you change anything, or not, your assessment of the evidence would be most welcome in this thread.
CT'ers' Local Actions on Climate Change
You can do something! When you like one of this thread's links on an aspect of climate change, spread the news by posting it to your social media accounts and other Websites/Discussion Boards you participate in!
"The world's north is under assault by one of the most devastating snowstorms in living memory. From Vladivostok to Toronto to New York, a massive frozen storm has engulfed the world's north. Arctic sea ice extent is unchanged in 40yrs. Earth isn't warming & we're in an ice age"
"Carbon dioxide is the reason we have life on earth. Without it there is no photosynthesis, no plants, no animals & no humans. CO2 does not 'heat' air. It cannot cause air temperatures to rise or fall. In trace amounts it only 'slows' escaping heat. It doesn't 'cause' heat."
"A snow blizzard has turned much of North America & Canada into a nightmarish frozen landscape. This makes the point, dismantling oil, gas & coal is a terrible blunder, one that may lead to heavy loss of life. It's just as bad in much of northern Europe."
CO2 does not 'heat' air. It cannot cause air temperatures to rise or fall. In trace amounts it only 'slows' escaping heat. It doesn't 'cause' heat." - Post # 1015 above.
This is playing with words.
The Sun causes heat at the surface of earth, and to a lesser extent in the air/atmosphere. In this sense, it is true that CO2 does not "cause" heat; it is not the source of heat.
This is not the issue.
The issue is that there has been forming for some time now, due to both human activity and natural causes, an impervious gases canopy (Including for instance, Methane, another "greenhouse gas") around the earth. The issue is the dissipation of heat received by the Earth, back into space. When this new canopy, which is growing more impervious every day as we speak, did not exist, the heat bounced of the Earth and escaped, and the surface temperature of Earth remained relatively constant.
Now the heat is being trapped, just like we trap heat in a greenhouse, to raise the air temperature in the greenhouse, to the benefit of the plants inside.
The temperature of the soil and water and air is all continuing to rise. It has been argued here that the projections on the timing of continuing temperature rise by the scientific establishment is faulty.....there is material above on this point......it is admittedly, at least for me, difficult information to sort through.
But it is my view that this climate change/warming has caused many problems, one of which is that we are suffering greater, more extremes of weather. We are seeing more spontaneous wildfires due to the heat concentration, and the droughts, as part of the weather extremes. It is arguable that ocean/sea levels are rising due to the heat melting more, and faster, snow and ice (Especially the polar caps - but we have seen in this thread some scientific argument that what is happening at the polar caps is not so easy to figure out).
Finally, it is clear that CO2 is not the biggest factor increasing the density of the canopy, though it is a contributor. It seems that escaping Methane is actually one of the main sources of the increasing density of the non-porous canopy.
Admittedly, not easy material to sort through......but we have had a lot of the conflicting info presented over the course of this thread so far.
Responses have been minimal during holidays, and so last week's participation was down.
Climate Change Thread “Responses”
There are lots of climate change articles out there, both on negative anthropogenic climate change, and negative natural climate change.
This thread encourages CT'ers on all sides to re-post here, as responses, the climate change posts of interest they see elsewhere. Overall, ChessTalker's have been quite active here in posting “responses” and it seems that chessplayers across Canada re wanting information on climate change, a challenge unlike any our species has ever faced before.
Note: I personally, as the thread originator, am trying to post a new response at least every 2nd day, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is great that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.
The Pressing Climate Change Issue
The core issue:
Building a sense of URGENCY on this issue in society. We must realize that we cannot kick it down the road any longer!
The public is aware of the climate change issue.......
BUT.....
climate activists must find strategies to “AWAKEN” the public to the “urgency”.
It is expected, though somewhat disheartening, to see other negative issues of the day climb immediately to the top of the public's agenda, with climate change being sometimes substantially downgraded in importance. We will all pay for this.........
The Time Line
Nature's Tipping point is estimated to be, on current trajectory, only 9 years away (Around Jan. 1, 2031). Capping the temperature rise at only 1.5 degrees Celsius (the original international target) is now impossible (UN Climate Change Panel's most recent report). Their position is that the problem at this time is mostly due to human activity, and that radical change in our method of living is the only way to avoid this rising, very problematic, temperature. UNCCP noted that current government deadlines were totally insufficient to solve the problem. CO 2 must be capped by 2025! Also, it has now become necessary to add in the process of CO 2 “removal”, along with “eliminating” the spewing of greenhouse gases into our atmosphere by human activity. And it has now become clear that the more deadly greenhouse gas is Methane, and countries' last year agreement on its reduction are on the table this year again!
Our window of opportunity is fast closing.
The Large Picture Solutions
Can we come up with at least one viable suggestion of some impressive, radical thing that might wake up the public, that we could then put out there to other concerned climate activists?
Negative “Natural” Climate Change
This thread has had a number of CT'ers arguing for Natural Climate Change, and arguing that the human economic activity contribution to negative climate change is negligible. We are just in one of Nature's long warming cycles.
We would encourage everyone to consider the materials being presented, and then see whether they in any way change your perspective, if you are an adherent of negative Anthropogenic climate change. Whether you change anything, or not, your assessment of the evidence would be most welcome in this thread.
CT'ers' Local Actions on Climate Change
You can do something! When you like one of this thread's links on an aspect of climate change, spread the news by posting it to your social media accounts and other Websites/Discussion Boards you participate in!
CO2 does not 'heat' air. It cannot cause air temperatures to rise or fall. In trace amounts it only 'slows' escaping heat. It doesn't 'cause' heat." - Post # 1015 above.
This is playing with words.
The Sun causes heat at the surface of earth, and to a lesser extent in the air/atmosphere. In this sense, it is true that CO2 does not "cause" heat; it is not the source of heat.
This is not the issue.
The issue is that there has been forming for some time now, due to both human activity and natural causes, an impervious gases canopy (Including for instance, Methane, another "greenhouse gas") around the earth. The issue is the dissipation of heat received by the Earth, back into space. When this new canopy, which is growing more impervious every day as we speak, did not exist, the heat bounced of the Earth and escaped, and the surface temperature of Earth remained relatively constant.
Now the heat is being trapped, just like we trap heat in a greenhouse, to raise the air temperature in the greenhouse, to the benefit of the plants inside.
The temperature of the soil and water and air is all continuing to rise. It has been argued here that the projections on the timing of continuing temperature rise by the scientific establishment is faulty.....there is material above on this point......it is admittedly, at least for me, difficult information to sort through.
But it is my view that this climate change/warming has caused many problems, one of which is that we are suffering greater, more extremes of weather. We are seeing more spontaneous wildfires due to the heat concentration, and the droughts, as part of the weather extremes. It is arguable that ocean/sea levels are rising due to the heat melting more, and faster, snow and ice (Especially the polar caps - but we have seen in this thread some scientific argument that what is happening at the polar caps is not so easy to figure out).
Finally, it is clear that CO2 is not the biggest factor increasing the density of the canopy, though it is a contributor. It seems that escaping Methane is actually one of the main sources of the increasing density of the non-porous canopy.
Admittedly, not easy material to sort through......but we have had a lot of the conflicting info presented over the course of this thread so far.
~ Bob A (T-S/P)
I previously posted several papers here that show CO2 has reached its saturation point in that the early concentrations absorbed the max amount of heat possible the more you add does not change the temperature. Please show me where this is incorrect. Just like with COVID injections, you are promoting 15th-century pseudoscience. Ask yourself who benefits from all of this, hint they are all really rich already, and they are huge fans of both causes and have gotten extremely rich in promoting this to the gullible masses.
But what I understood was that CO2 as it increased in proportion in the upper atmosphere became a problem in that it did not let the heat from the earth surface, being reflected back up, get through the multi-gas greenhouse canopy into space......the heat waves got reflected back down towards the surface of the Earth. Thus the Earth's Surface/The air/ The lower atmosphere, all incrementally kept creeping up in temperature.
You seem to indicate that the CO2 absorption of heat is not a problem........that once the CO2 has reached its heat maximum for the density, it doesn't absorb any more heat.
Well, I don't have any problem with that, if that is what is happening. But when more heat from the Earth's surface hits this maximum heated CO2, what happens?
You seem to say: When the CO2 is heated to its maximum for its density, then the additional assault of heat waves just passes right through the CO2 into space? Am I correctly understanding?
My understanding is that the temperature of the CO2 has nothing to do with the inability of heat waves to get through it. The heat waves in any event get reflected back down to the surface of the Earth.
It seems I need a bit more information.........I haven't quite got the mechanics of it sorted out right........I will do a bit more research on "Heat Waves and CO2 & the Non-Porous Canopy". And further help you can give would be appreciated.
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