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At the time I was following the modeling, some time ago, all were coming out relatively close re the "tipping point. I don't remember one being quite different. But it is general usage when averaging, to throw out the extreme at each end.
Anyway, I have not recently seen much on the "tipping point". When I do, I will post here whether it has been moved.
Mankind will not voluntarily do enough to prevent us from reaching the tipping point. Thus, there are three possible outcomes. We reach the tipping point, we are culled by the pandemic, or a miracle of sorts (Jesus returns, ET saves us...) takes place. My money is on the second alternative. We are being and will continue to be culled to reduce our numbers to the point where we can do no further damage. The Omega variant will do the trick.
When I was in high-school Geography the teacher advocated the theory of Man Determination over Nature.That if man wanted to grow bananas at the North Pole, we could, Well, now with the ice cap melting, maybe we could. Nature will fight back against over-population and over farming and over mining. Covid is a mild man-made pandemic, there will be worse ones. As disasters hit there will be shortages of food and minerals. Unfortunately, there is a fourth possible outcome: wars.
When I was in high-school Geography the teacher advocated the theory of Man Determination over Nature.That if man wanted to grow bananas at the North Pole, we could, Well, now with the ice cap melting, maybe we could. Nature will fight back against over-population and over farming and over mining. Covid is a mild man-made pandemic, there will be worse ones. As disasters hit there will be shortages of food and minerals. Unfortunately, there is a fourth possible outcome: wars.
Nature has never been in balance with its own self.
Covid is a mild man-made pandemic, there will be worse ones... Unfortunately, there is a fourth possible outcome: wars.
COVID-19 may have been man-made initially, but the variations taking place now are strictly up to Nature and may not be so mild in the future. And yes, I agree, wars are another possible outcome. In fact, there may be maniacs who agree with my contention that a radical population reduction is needed and with the power to launch wars of untold destruction in order to solve the problem. Ironically, this may be the only way to save mankind, though I do not personally advocate mass-murder as a solution. I think we should shut down the economy on a world-wide scale to the greatest extent possible, both to address climate change suicide and the dangers of a potential Omega variation of the virus. As I have said again and again, enjoy your remaining time.
Nature has never been in balance with its own self.
Being a good Hegelian, I agree that God/Nature is in a process of development that has not yet been completed, thus to this point S/He/it is not fully self aware, not fully actualized, not yet both in and for itself as Reason. Is this what you are getting at?
I like the youtube videos... on free will and the following one on compatibleism... and compatibleism explains why we do not need to believe in free will to put in prison the robbers and murderers incompatible with society,,,,
And in the same vein, when idealism is incompatible with the reality of illusions, delusions, hallucinations, we need to put aside idealism too...
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Friday, 7th January, 2022, 01:12 AM.
Being a good Hegelian, I agree that God/Nature is in a process of development that has not yet been completed, thus to this point S/He/it is not fully self aware, not fully actualized, not yet both in and for itself as Reason. Is this what you are getting at?
Um, I guess.
Nature is always in the state of 'becoming'.
Our planet wobbles, it churns up new land masses, entire continents still shift, mountains are still growing.
Nature is always in 'Growth' mode.
Shame human beings cling so very desperately to permanence and also to some flavor of superstition. Wars fought, walls constructed.
Learn from the very soil on which you depend ... Growth is all that matters.
.
Last edited by Neil Frarey; Friday, 7th January, 2022, 02:12 AM.
I agree that the Multi-verse is in a state always of "unfolding", following its own internal plan of evolution.
It would seem from the science that Nature's normal evolution was not going to bring it into conflict with human and co-species existence.
BUT..........enter man.........and his short-sighted drive, for profit, under global capitalism, regardless of damage to the planet and its life-giving atmosphere. This has sent Nature on an evolution that is "out of balance".....this in the sense that its evolution was skewed onto a path, lethally hostile to humans, and many of our co-species. This did not have to be the case!
To correct this path, we must temporarily go "backwards", and re-establish the "balance in Nature" that is amenable to human life. At that point then, Nature will again move forward in its former trajectory, compatible with human existence.
COVID-19 may have been man-made initially, but the variations taking place now are strictly up to Nature and may not be so mild in the future. And yes, I agree, wars are another possible outcome. In fact, there may be maniacs who agree with my contention that a radical population reduction is needed and with the power to launch wars of untold destruction in order to solve the problem. Ironically, this may be the only way to save mankind, though I do not personally advocate mass-murder as a solution. I think we should shut down the economy on a world-wide scale to the greatest extent possible, both to address climate change suicide and the dangers of a potential Omega variation of the virus. As I have said again and again, enjoy your remaining time.
If only mankind can save mankind, we are down to some very limited possibilities. Colonizing other planets or the moon is not feasible in the limited time remaining based on Bob A.'s tipping point projection. So that leaves what you say is needed, Brad, a radical population reduction of humanity on Earth. You are not advocating mass-murder via wars, but you do advocate shutting down the economy, which would be mass murder in another form. The problem there is that we passed, a long time ago, the reasonable number of people that should be living on Earth. The sign of this is that we have musicians of no musical skill, athletes of no athletic skill, actors of no acting skill, financial advisors of no financial skill, politicians of no leadership skill, real estate and auto sellers of no particular skill, lawyers of no moral standing -- I could go on and on -- all making lucrative incomes. That is the most sure sign of impending doom.
None of our songs, none of our sports, none of our movies, none of our financial instruments, none of our politics, none of our real estate or auto sales, none of our laws are going to get us out of our quagmire.
Together with this, we have no breakthrough technological developments in the last 40 or 50 years. Ok, yes, we have major advances in computing technology and of course we have the internet and smartphones, but what has this given us? All of our increases in information seems to come with a corresponding decrease in knowledge and understanding. All of our increases in communication seems to produce a decrease in trust and knowledge of the truth.
No, when I say no breakthroughs in technological development, I mean things that would really be meaningful. Cost-free, pollution-free energy. Curing of all disease. Colonization of the moon and / or Mars. Those are the Big 3 that are really needed if we are talking about survival of mankind. But instead of focusing on those, we spend our time and resources on entertainment and frivolous power-grabbing of all sorts. Therefore, mankind does not deserve to be saved at all.
There is 1 possible game-saver: nuclear fusion energy production. This to me is the one thing that could save mankind. It is a race against time. I would say to anyone who is interested in saving mankind and who has money to invest: invest in fusion. As much as you can. Forget everything else, this is the only thing that can save mankind. None of us may be around to see it though.
Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Friday, 7th January, 2022, 05:27 PM.
Agreed, Nature/existence itself is a becoming. But becoming can be understood in two senses. Either simple permanent random change, or permanent change directed by an evolutionary pattern that is implicit and in the nature or definition of Nature/existence itself, a logic. I contend the latter.
It would seem from the science that Nature's normal evolution was not going to bring it into conflict with human and co-species existence...To correct this path, we must temporarily go "backwards", and re-establish the "balance in Nature" that is amenable to human life. At that point then, Nature will again move forward in its former trajectory, compatible with human existence.
First, it is my view that Nature creates mankind so that philosophers can come to an understanding of Nature/existence so that Nature/existence understands itself. We show God the way, or we fail and go off. Second, agreed, but how to accomplish going backwards now? Simple, the pandemic kills off so many of us that the remaining economic activity is not enough to be dangerous to the entire ecosystem. Or it kills all of us off and then Nature/existence tries another species. If homo-sapiens fail, homo-erectus, cro-magnon, australopithecus and others have failed before us. They were all snuffed by Nature. Guess who is next?
You seem to argue that the real "biggest" crisis facing mankind is world over-population. This is throwing Nature off the normal course in which it would evolve.
Nature has shown re predator/predated species, it has ways of maintaining balance - usually through disease or predation. So Nature continues to be "sustainable" as it evolves. You also seem to agree that nuclear war is probably the second biggest danger to mankind.
So is it that you see Nature as, kind of instinctively, using "Climate Change Suicide" as one way of solving the over-population problem, and regaining its natural evolutionary path?
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