Anthropogenic Negative Climate Change (ANCC)

[Brad Thomson]

Without going full Thanos, the problem is overpopulation, not capitalism.

Agreed completely, this is the point I have been making in many posts. The problem is not the system, it is the number of people on the planet, combined with their lack of moral sense. We could all live with huge individual carbon footprints in a completely capitalistic society if there were far fewer of us. This is why a cull is in effect now. We will not give up what we have achieved technologically, and why should we? All that is needed is fewer people so that our total pollution/carbon footprint is below the threshold of the capacity of Nature to recover and self-sustain.

[Bob Gillanders]

Capitalism is way more likely to save the world from existential threats than destroy it. Capitalism is all about "if you want something, go and make it happen". When climate change hits some point, the smartest people in the world will turn their attention to it and solve it because they have no choice.

What are they waiting for? Climate change is already here. I assume you have heard the phrase " an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

[David Ottosen]

What are they waiting for? Climate change is already here. I assume you have heard the phrase " an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

It isn't affecting them yet.

[Brad Thomson]

It isn't affecting them yet.

When it does it will be far too late, it already is.

[David Ottosen]

When it does it will be far too late, it already is.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think any of us are capable of predicting the level of technological solutions that might be available when it's at the point of the human race being on the line. The one thing I often think about to get hope about it is during the Olympics in 2008 when measures were taken in Beijing to improve air quality, and literally within a week there was noticeable improvement without massive technological investment. Without going full flower child, the earth has immense capacity to heal if we give it a chance.

[Bob Gillanders]

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think any of us are capable of predicting the level of technological solutions that might be available when it's at the point of the human race being on the line. The one thing I often think about to get hope about it is during the Olympics in 2008 when measures were taken in Beijing to improve air quality, and literally within a week there was noticeable improvement without massive technological investment. Without going full flower child, the earth has immense capacity to heal if we give it a chance.

David, I was just wondering if you have had a chance to read this book?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAp4..._channel=MSNBC

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi David:

Your trust in human creativity when under threat is impressive. Especially when the creativity is going to occur within the existing capitalist system.

It seems your answer is that capitalism, whenever future profit is threatened, rises to the occasion at the last minute, or, at least, far enough ahead of the calamity to give it time to implement the solution, yes?

We all seem to agree on one thing though..........a time of disaster is ahead of us based on current trajectory.

My own view: even vaunted capitalism is going to "awaken" too late - the time frame will be too short for its creativity.

Capitalism needs to "awaken" NOW! I am afraid that if we are relying on current global governance/capitalism for the solution...........we are waiting for Godot.

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Brad Thomson]

Without going full flower child, the earth has immense capacity to heal if we give it a chance.

It will certainly heal itself, but not with ourselves in it. Even if we nuke ourselves to extinction, the planet will recover over time.

[Bob Gillanders]

Walking over to Tim's this morning for coffee, I was wondering on the death toll so far from climate change. Is there a website tracking deaths like we do COVID19?

There seems to be some attempts at this, amongst many here is one.

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/clima...nge-death-toll

But if somebody comes across one which is more explicit and detailed with specific numbers and a total, please post.
It may help to raise awareness.

[Dilip Panjwani]

David, I was just wondering if you have had a chance to read this book?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAp4..._channel=MSNBC

The current billionaires are not the only smarties in the world today.... there are millions of similar or even smarter minds around, and if the crippling governmental restrictions which prevent these minds from being able to effectively compete and produce thousands of competing Amazons, Microsofts, Googles and the like, are removed, we will also find a novel scenario of extreme demand for workforce, in which the frontline workers will be able to simply ask for (and get) much better working conditions and incomes.... without union-bullying...

[Bob Gillanders]

The current billionaires are not the only smarties in the world today.... there are millions of similar or even smarter minds around, and if the crippling governmental restrictions which prevent these minds from being able to effectively compete and produce thousands of competing Amazons, Microsofts, Googles and the like, are removed, we will also find a novel scenario of extreme demand for workforce, in which the frontline workers will be able to simply ask for (and get) much better working conditions and incomes.... without union-bullying...

Dilip, would you say this is an example of Libertarian thinking?

[Dilip Panjwani]

Dilip, would you say this is an example of Libertarian thinking?

Yeah, interesting, isn't it?

[Bob Armstrong]

Dilip - my view -

Libertarianism has too optimistic a view of man, and too pessimistic a view of man's systems.

In practice, it leads to societal chaos.

Just my 2 cents

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Dilip - my view -

Libertarianism has too optimistic a view of man, and too pessimistic a view of man's systems.

In practice, it leads to societal chaos.

Just my 2 cents

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

In practice? The only place it has been practiced that I know of, is within small highly functional communities/villages...
Bob, any of man's systems without the stifling tyranny of Marxism is worth looking at...

[Bob Gillanders]

The only place it has been practiced that I know of, is within small highly functional communities/villages...

and at the local level maybe it works, but only because it is cocooned in a larger non-Libertarian community.
Large corporations are out of control now, removing all government regulations is a terrifying idea.

So interesting?, not so much. Terrifying, yes!

Amazon exploits it workers.
Microsoft buys out it competitors.
Google threatens our privacy.

I don't see how allowing them to do whatever they want, leads to greater competition.
Besides, this thread is about climate change. The challenge is to reduce our carbon footprint, or more generally to live within our means, to adapt to the reality of a finite world. Letting the wealthy consume whatever they want, leads to environmental collapse.