Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani
View Post
So Libertarianism is Anarchy! LOL
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Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
I recently visited Tundra Music on the Danforth in Toronto. I spoke to a man who I believe to be the owner, or at least the manager. After we digressed from the topic of guitars, he went into some detail about how voting changes nothing and how the world is actually ruled by a few major organizations: the Freemasons, and various owners of castles in Europe, and other Royal families.
We can see that voting changes nothing by looking already at how things are going in Argentina. The new leader has already been "briefed" about what he can actually do and not do ... and guess what, his ambitious Libertarian agenda is already being moderated. In 2 years, you won't be able to say that any of his radical agenda actually transpired. Things there will be back to the way they were, with only minor superficial changes to "keep up appearances".
Originally posted by Peter McKillop View PostClever quotations often encapsulate simple-minded thinking. If you substitute "Provincial" for "Federal" in this quote, then Alberta would have a shortage of oil.Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
But taking Canada as a whole ... does Canada have a federal-government-caused shortage of oil? Of lumber? Of wheat? Of minerals?
It all depends how you define "shortage".
If we take major quantities of our oil, our lumber, our wheat, our minerals and sell it abroad in order to increase our ability to import oranges, pineapples, electronics ... and even rare exotic wood chess sets .... among many other products not available in Canada in any large quantities ... then do we REALLY have a shortage of oil, lumber, wheat, minerals?
Sand is actually an extremely valuable resource in today's silicon age and in today's concrete building age. There is actually reported by reputable sources to be an international shortage of sand!Leave a comment:
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Small government is best - Democratic Marxism
Let the nations dissolve, and evolve into a world collection of villages - many small governments!
Those dream in technicolour of no government........to avoid incompetence, corruption, abuse of power, self-interest, conflict between government and bureaucracy, and government and their electors, etc.
They are always with us..........small minimizes their impact.
Bob A (Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario.)Leave a comment:
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So true!!Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
And that is why the Libertarians say: That government is the best that governs the least...Leave a comment:
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Well said Peter.Originally posted by Peter McKillop View PostLeave a comment:
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Hi Bob. When it comes to human beings, I fear the outlook is not good.Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. Emma Goldman
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand.
Milton Friedman
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Well, right now, it appears that most eyes, ears and minds, in the world, perceive Democratic Capitalism as "best" (Despite the mess the world is in).
And it appears that most eyes, ears and minds, in Argentina, perceive Libertarianism as "best" (Despite the very early chaos there under Libertarianism).
In what year do people think that most eyes, ears and minds, in the province of Ontario, Canada, will perceive the Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario as "best"? (Despite the propagandizing by the elite against any socialism)
Bob ALeave a comment:
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And let those who have minds that hallucinate live with their delusions?Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostLeave a comment:
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Let those who have eyes to see, see; and those who have ears to hear, hear.
Bob ALeave a comment:
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Bob,Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostAmericas - Argentina
Libertarian Chaos
Argentina’s central bank changed its benchmark tool for monetary policy Monday, replacing four-week notes with one-day transactions in a bid to lower borrowing costs.
The monetary authority will no longer auction its 28-day Leliq notes, which until now were used to determine its policy rate. Instead, the 1-day repo notes that currently pay an interest rate of 100% (!?) will serve as the bank’s new policy benchmark.
Monday’s move aims to free up pesos for Argentine banks and strengthen demand for treasury notes. Shortly after the central bank issued its statement, the government announced details of a peso debt auction Wednesday, with maturities of up to three years.What Bloomberg Economics Says...
“The Argentine central bank’s adoption of the one-day repo rate as its main policy lever is more than just an operational adjustment. It shows the BCRA is confident that the government’s initial shock therapy — a fiscal adjustment and currency devaluation — will prevent a rush to US dollars or fan inflation further. We think confidence is a bit premature.”
— Adriana Dupita, Brazil and Argentina economist
For the full analysis, click here
Argentina’s banks had been fleeing Leliqs before President Javier Milei took office Dec. 10, rolling over the lowest amount of the notes on record in the weeks before and right after his inauguration. But after several policy moves last week, bank demand for Leliqs surged again
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Milei had warned that if banks continued to flee Leliqs, it could risk releasing more pesos into the economy and boost inflation that’s already at 160% year over year.
The central bank’s policy tool pivot runs contrary to a key pillar of Argentina’s $44 billion agreement with the International Monetary Fund, which calls for monetary policy rates to exceed annual inflation. Even compounding for inflation, the new rate barely surpasses November’s annual consumer price figure. Economists see inflation ending this year above 200%, which would put the rate deep into negative territory if left unchanged.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...bloombergdaily
It is pre-Libertarian chaos being rectified... get it straight! (do not twist facts, as you have been doing for DM...)
Seems you have been desperately searching for something that you can denounce as Libertarian policy outcome (only a week into the new Argentine government), and when you did not find anything, you started hallucinating that you are seeing a disastrous outcome (within a week of its existence)!Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Monday, 18th December, 2023, 10:53 PM.Leave a comment:
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Americas - Argentina
Libertarian Chaos
Argentina’s central bank changed its benchmark tool for monetary policy Monday, replacing four-week notes with one-day transactions in a bid to lower borrowing costs.
The monetary authority will no longer auction its 28-day Leliq notes, which until now were used to determine its policy rate. Instead, the 1-day repo notes that currently pay an interest rate of 100% (!?) will serve as the bank’s new policy benchmark.
Monday’s move aims to free up pesos for Argentine banks and strengthen demand for treasury notes. Shortly after the central bank issued its statement, the government announced details of a peso debt auction Wednesday, with maturities of up to three years.What Bloomberg Economics Says...Argentina’s banks had been fleeing Leliqs before President Javier Milei took office Dec. 10, rolling over the lowest amount of the notes on record in the weeks before and right after his inauguration. But after several policy moves last week, bank demand for Leliqs surged again
“The Argentine central bank’s adoption of the one-day repo rate as its main policy lever is more than just an operational adjustment. It shows the BCRA is confident that the government’s initial shock therapy — a fiscal adjustment and currency devaluation — will prevent a rush to US dollars or fan inflation further. We think confidence is a bit premature.”
— Adriana Dupita, Brazil and Argentina economist
For the full analysis, click here
.
Milei had warned that if banks continued to flee Leliqs, it could risk releasing more pesos into the economy and boost inflation that’s already at 160% year over year.
The central bank’s policy tool pivot runs contrary to a key pillar of Argentina’s $44 billion agreement with the International Monetary Fund, which calls for monetary policy rates to exceed annual inflation. Even compounding for inflation, the new rate barely surpasses November’s annual consumer price figure. Economists see inflation ending this year above 200%, which would put the rate deep into negative territory if left unchanged.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...bloombergdaily
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Collapse of Civilization
(Started: 23/10/30)
Weekly Overview
Notes:
1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic.
A. Statistics
Week # 7 (23/12/11 – 17 [7 days])
(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)
A. Weekly Stats:
.....................................................2023 Average..........................................................2023 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day..........Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(7 wks.)............Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(7 wks.).
…36........................55.......................44.........................2.......................4........................4
B. Analysis of Last Week's Stats
Last week's stats are running a bit behind of those of the prior week, and the 2023 year to date. There has been more mud-slinging than usual, a few posts of substance.
It seems that this new non-chess topic has hit an interest point ....good on the initiator, Bob Gillanders (I started the thread for him).
C. Is Our Civilization Now Collapsing?
Civilizations do not collapse overnight........there is a long, steady, continuous deterioration before hand. Then, all of a sudden, the tipping point has been reached, and we get metamorphosis (Like caterpillar to butterfly, only in reverse!). Either Dystopia, or a new empire rising like the Sphinx from the ashes, sometimes worse than the one it replaces.
Do we care who is going to be in control, as humans battle to survive in an environment more and more hostile to their continued existence (Negative Climate Change; Possible Nuclear War; Pandemics; etc.)? The very collapse of our civilization is on the horizon!
D. Indicia of Our Collapsing Civilization
Comment below on what the current evidence is that our world's civilization is now collapsing......we'll add some of your ideas here! If we miss it, remind us:
1. Increasing dependence on private, volunteer Food Banks.
2. Increasing "Negative Health" factors, such as obesity (Despite amazing advances in medicine and medical technology).
3. An agenda by unknown forces to impose on the World a "New World Order/Great Reset". The goal is a world government that, on the evidence to date, will be authoritarian. Likely it will evolve to “totalitarian”. Even if this movement's intentions are “benevolent”, they are totally misguided in understanding the fundamentals of human nature and human rights.
4. Increasing inability to cope with environmental changes and deterioration of our world environment.
5. Decreasing trust in science, and thus the government – e.g. challenges to the medical authorities around COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccination generally.
Additional Notes:
1. The goal of this thread is not to woodshed an opposing view into submission. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide.
2. I personally, as the thread originator (After an initiative by Bob Gillanders), am trying to post a new response at least twice per week, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is necessary,as is happening, that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.
Bob ALeave a comment:
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What Dollop and Sid Vicious are saying about Mitterrand's first term as French President seems to confirm my viewpoint:Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
neither extreme right-wing nor extreme left-wing economic policies are good in the long term.
As much as it may be distasteful to many extremists like Dollop, Sid, Vlad Drkulec, Bob A., the truth is that constant vacillating around centrist, center-right and center-left policy agendas seems to be the very best way to manage the world's economies.
It's not perfect .... but it beats all the alternatives.
We now have an extreme-right government in Argentina, and I can assure everyone things will not go well there and more centrist policies will have to be made there. In fact, already the new leader is making minor concessions towards the center ... just the beginning of more major concessions to come.
Things would be a LOT better if politicians were almost volunteers, very low in pay and very low in esteem and only doing the job out of pure love for their society. Then the only remaining battle would be against the world's billionaires.
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Hi Bob,Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostNon-Communist Socialism
Many people, when analyzing "socialism" only look at old USSR-type Communism - Vlad: Inevitably....."MURDER & HUNGER"; Dilip: "DESTRUCTIVE...socialism.
I won't say they have never heard of Francois Mitterand. Unfortunately, I feel the right deliberately, and with malfeasance, ghosts him when discussing "socialism" and its "inevitable" horrors.
I'd like to present the TRUTH about non-communist socialism:
Wikipedia
François Marie Adrien Maurice Mitterrand[a] (26 October 1916 – 8 January 1996) was a French politician and the President of France from 1981 to 1995, and the longest holder of that position in the history of France. As First Secretary of the Socialist Party, he was the first left-wing politician to assume the presidency under the Fifth Republic.
Due to family influences, Mitterrand started his political life on the Catholic nationalist right. He served under the Vichy regime during its earlier years. Subsequently he joined the Resistance, moved to the left, and held ministerial office several times under the Fourth Republic. Mitterrand opposed Charles de Gaulle's establishment of the Fifth Republic. Although at times a politically isolated figure, he outmanoeuvered rivals to become the left's standard bearer in the 1965 and 1974 presidential elections, before being elected president in the 1981 presidential election. He was re-elected in 1988 and remained in office until 1995.
I'd also put into the hopper of TRUTH about non-communist socialism: Chile
Salvador Guillermo Allende Gossens (US: /ɑːˈjɛndeɪ, -di/ ah-YEND-ay, -ee,[1][2]UK: /æˈ-, aɪˈɛn-/,[3]Latin American Spanish: [salβaˈðoɾ ɣiˈʝeɾmo aˈʝende ˈɣosens]; 26 June 1908 – 11 September 1973) was a socialist politician,[4][5] who served as the 28th president of Chile from 1970 until his death in 1973.[6] As a democratic socialist committed to democracy,[7][8] he has been described as the first Marxist to be elected president in a liberal democracy in Latin America.[9][10][11]
Allende's involvement in Chilean politics spanned a period of nearly forty years, during which he held various positions including senator, deputy, and cabinet minister. As a life-long committed member of the Socialist Party of Chile, whose foundation he had actively contributed to, he unsuccessfully ran for the national presidency in the 1952, 1958, and 1964 elections. In 1970, he won the presidency as the candidate of the Popular Unity coalition in a close three-way race. He was elected in a run-off by Congress, as no candidate had gained a majority. In office, Allende pursued a policy he called "The Chilean Way to Socialism". The coalition government was far from unanimous. Allende said that he was committed to democracy and represented the more moderate faction of the Socialist Party, while the radical wing sought a more radical course. Instead, the Communist Party of Chile favored a gradual and cautious approach that sought cooperation with Christian democrats,[7] which proved influential for the Italian Communist Party and the Historic Compromise.[12]
As president, Allende sought to nationalize major industries, expand education, and improve the living standards of the working class. He clashed with the right-wing parties that controlled Congress and with the judiciary. On 11 September 1973, the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d'état supported by the CIA, which initially denied the allegations.[13][14] In 2000, the CIA admitted its role in the 1970 kidnapping of General René Schneider who had refused to use the army to stop Allende's inauguration.[15][16] Declassified documents released in 2023 showed that US president Richard Nixon, his national security advisor Henry Kissinger, and the United States government, which had branded Allende as a dangerous communist,[8] were aware of the military's plans to overthrow Allende's democratically-elected government in the days before the coup d'état.[17]
As troops surrounded La Moneda Palace, Allende gave his last speech vowing not to resign.[18] Later that day, Allende died by suicide in his office;[19][20][21] the exact circumstances of his death are still disputed.[22][A] Following Allende's death, General Augusto Pinochet refused to return authority to a civilian government, and Chile was later ruled by the Government Junta, ending more than four decades of uninterrupted democratic governance, a period known as the Presidential Republic (1925–1973); the military dictatorship of Pinochet only ended after the successful internationally-backed 1989 constitutional referendum led to the peaceful Chilean transition to democracy. The military junta that took over dissolved Congress, suspended the Constitution of 1925, and initiated a program of persecuting alleged dissidents, in which at least 3,095 civilians disappeared or were killed.[24]
Wikipedia
Who is committing MURDER????????????
Bob A (Democratic Marxist)
Let us not beat around the bush and concentrate on the point we are discussing:
Just because Pinochet was a corrupt dictator who murdered a lot of his people, does not absolve Allende from the murder of the entrepreneurial spirit of Chileans, thereby driving their economy into an abyss.
And as Sid pointed out about Mitterrand, the same article you quote about him also says: "Early in his first term, he followed a radical left-wing economic agenda, including nationalisation of key firms and the introduction of the 39-hour work week, but after two years, with the economy in crisis, he somewhat reversed course. He instead pushed a socially liberal agenda with reforms such as the abolition of the death penalty, and the end of a government monopoly in radio and television broadcasting." BTW, a socially liberal agenda is part and parcel of LibertarianismLast edited by Dilip Panjwani; Sunday, 17th December, 2023, 11:23 AM.Leave a comment:
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Bob, you have only served to bolster Vlads point of the harms of MarxisimnOriginally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostNon-Communist Socialism
Many people, when analyzing "socialism" only look at old USSR-type Communism - Vlad: Inevitably....."MURDER & HUNGER"; Dilip: "DESTRUCTIVE...socialism.
I won't say they have never heard of Francois Mitterand. Unfortunately, I feel the right deliberately, and with malfeasance, ghosts him when discussing "socialism" and its "inevitable" horrors.
I'd like to present the TRUTH about non-communist socialism:
Wikipedia
François Marie Adrien Maurice Mitterrand[a] (26 October 1916 – 8 January 1996) was a French politician and the President of France from 1981 to 1995, and the longest holder of that position in the history of France. As First Secretary of the Socialist Party, he was the first left-wing politician to assume the presidency under the Fifth Republic.
Due to family influences, Mitterrand started his political life on the Catholic nationalist right. He served under the Vichy regime during its earlier years. Subsequently he joined the Resistance, moved to the left, and held ministerial office several times under the Fourth Republic. Mitterrand opposed Charles de Gaulle's establishment of the Fifth Republic. Although at times a politically isolated figure, he outmanoeuvered rivals to become the left's standard bearer in the 1965 and 1974 presidential elections, before being elected president in the 1981 presidential election. He was re-elected in 1988 and remained in office until 1995.
I'd also put into the hopper of TRUTH about non-communist socialism: Chile
Salvador Guillermo Allende Gossens (US: /ɑːˈjɛndeɪ, -di/ ah-YEND-ay, -ee,[1][2]UK: /æˈ-, aɪˈɛn-/,[3]Latin American Spanish: [salβaˈðoɾ ɣiˈʝeɾmo aˈʝende ˈɣosens]; 26 June 1908 – 11 September 1973) was a socialist politician,[4][5] who served as the 28th president of Chile from 1970 until his death in 1973.[6] As a democratic socialist committed to democracy,[7][8] he has been described as the first Marxist to be elected president in a liberal democracy in Latin America.[9][10][11]
Allende's involvement in Chilean politics spanned a period of nearly forty years, during which he held various positions including senator, deputy, and cabinet minister. As a life-long committed member of the Socialist Party of Chile, whose foundation he had actively contributed to, he unsuccessfully ran for the national presidency in the 1952, 1958, and 1964 elections. In 1970, he won the presidency as the candidate of the Popular Unity coalition in a close three-way race. He was elected in a run-off by Congress, as no candidate had gained a majority. In office, Allende pursued a policy he called "The Chilean Way to Socialism". The coalition government was far from unanimous. Allende said that he was committed to democracy and represented the more moderate faction of the Socialist Party, while the radical wing sought a more radical course. Instead, the Communist Party of Chile favored a gradual and cautious approach that sought cooperation with Christian democrats,[7] which proved influential for the Italian Communist Party and the Historic Compromise.[12]
As president, Allende sought to nationalize major industries, expand education, and improve the living standards of the working class. He clashed with the right-wing parties that controlled Congress and with the judiciary. On 11 September 1973, the military moved to oust Allende in a coup d'état supported by the CIA, which initially denied the allegations.[13][14] In 2000, the CIA admitted its role in the 1970 kidnapping of General René Schneider who had refused to use the army to stop Allende's inauguration.[15][16] Declassified documents released in 2023 showed that US president Richard Nixon, his national security advisor Henry Kissinger, and the United States government, which had branded Allende as a dangerous communist,[8] were aware of the military's plans to overthrow Allende's democratically-elected government in the days before the coup d'état.[17]
As troops surrounded La Moneda Palace, Allende gave his last speech vowing not to resign.[18] Later that day, Allende died by suicide in his office;[19][20][21] the exact circumstances of his death are still disputed.[22][A] Following Allende's death, General Augusto Pinochet refused to return authority to a civilian government, and Chile was later ruled by the Government Junta, ending more than four decades of uninterrupted democratic governance, a period known as the Presidential Republic (1925–1973); the military dictatorship of Pinochet only ended after the successful internationally-backed 1989 constitutional referendum led to the peaceful Chilean transition to democracy. The military junta that took over dissolved Congress, suspended the Constitution of 1925, and initiated a program of persecuting alleged dissidents, in which at least 3,095 civilians disappeared or were killed.[24]
Wikipedia
Who is committing MURDER????????????
Bob A (Democratic Marxist)
You point out that Mitterand's regime is an example of success, but the truth is that the period from 1981 to 1983 was marked by a period of nationalization of many industrial sectors in France. The result was poorly run enterprises bloated with corrupt bureaucrats, which led to economic disincentives. The worst of all worlds occurred in this period of high unemployment and high inflation. Numerous studies have shown that high unemployment and high inflation hits the lower socio-economic classes the hardest, and rising deaths and mortality rates are the result.
The result of this economic catastrophe from 1981 to 1983 led to a shift, often referred to as the "tournant de la rigueur" (austerity turn), moved towards a more centrist or even center-right economic approach:- Fiscal Austerity: Implementation of austerity measures to control the budget deficit.
- Privatization: A reversal of the nationalization policy, leading to the privatization of many companies.
- Market-oriented Policies: Embracing more market-oriented policies and less state intervention in the economy.
As for Allende, nationalization led to the same catastrophic economic consequences. As pointed out earlier, his involvement with the USSR was significant as his leftist policies left his country impoverished and begging for handouts from the USSR, which had its own horrific economy. His theft of copper mines owned by US companies was the beginning of the end for him, as was his longtime involvement with the USSR, which is at odds with your position that he was not an old-style USSR thug.
The ignorance you spew on everything from climate change to the pandemic to economic policies is astounding.Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 17th December, 2023, 10:57 AM.Leave a comment:
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