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The level of play is incredibly high and only the all-seeing eye of the computer can make the players look like fools.
They both blundered on one move today. Big deal. It happens in all championship matches.
Saying that this is the worst WC match ever is selective memory at best.
Mathieu, think about this for a moment. Let's say the rest of the games end drawn with very little active play, i.e. no chances for Anand. That means game 6 ends up the decisive game. Magnus Carlsen is supposed to have this great impeccable style, virtually mistake-free. But suddenly he defends his WC by playing a blunder... that was replied to by a blunder. Is that really going to be positive for the reputation of Carlsen and for the reputation of the WC?
Carlsen, according to Wayne Komer's posts, has been describing his own play so far in this WC as basically terrible. If you want this WC and Carlsen to come out of this in a positive light, you'd better hope for some genuine fireworks.
Blunders that are the result of over-aggressiveness are one thing. Blunders that are just oversights, where the move played was not aggressive, not over-zealous, are another thing altogether.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Mathieu, think about this for a moment. Let's say the rest of the games end drawn ...
Why would you assume such an improbable occurrence? The draw rate currently is only 50%. Even if you assume a higher draw rate based on the greater empirical evidence of 2/3, 2/3 to the 6th power is only 64/729 or roughly 1/11.4 or 8.8%.
Carlsen's body language after Anand played 26. ...a4?? rather speaks volumes. The 'Hindustan Times' features a short (1:44) video of the "monumental blunder" and counter-blunder.
Now that's yesterdays news. The players are preparing for the next game.
I suspect the future wins will be either from nice play and combinations or a case of last blunder loses.
I would think it's easier to keep endorsements and get more while holding the title. That alone should add pressure to winning the match.
Mathieu, think about this for a moment. Let's say the rest of the games end drawn with very little active play, i.e. no chances for Anand. That means game 6 ends up the decisive game. Magnus Carlsen is supposed to have this great impeccable style, virtually mistake-free. But suddenly he defends his WC by playing a blunder... that was replied to by a blunder. Is that really going to be positive for the reputation of Carlsen and for the reputation of the WC?
There's been mistakes in all world championship matches. No big deal. That's always been the nature of the game. Only recently have we become very harsh critics of these guys because of the all-seeing eye of the computer.
And by the way, I don't even understand why people say that Carlsen would have lost the game. He was just going to be a pawn down (h6 most likely falls) and a could have tried steering that towards a rook endgame.
Why would you assume such an improbable occurrence? The draw rate currently is only 50%. Even if you assume a higher draw rate based on the greater empirical evidence of 2/3, 2/3 to the 6th power is only 64/729 or roughly 1/11.4 or 8.8%.
You're missing the bigger point. There's all kinds of ways they could split the next 6 points, and any one of them makes game 6 a critical swing game. That would make this entire match about a blunder and a counter-blunder... BOTH of them made not in the spirit of over-aggressiveness that can be forgiven, but rather as pure and simple oversights of what really amounts to a Black-to-move-and-win-in-3 problem (and a pretty simple one at that when talking about WC level players).
And even if Carlsen uses his current momentum to add on to the score, many will look back on game 6 and wonder what might have been. It's very likely the blunder / counter-blunder will be the most memorable thing from this entire match.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Definition: adjective - informal
extraordinarily good; wonderful.
"the only word to characterize Kepler's discoveries was ‘Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious’"
Peter Svidler and Sopiko Gurumishvili are in the commentator chairs. Anand goes for the Berlin. After 24. g4 they are still following Giri-Radjabov, Tashkent 2014. At move 28….Ne5 Alexander Delchev at chessbomb says Black’s defence is not at all easy here and after 31. Rh5 I am afraid that Anand is in serious danger of losing. After winning the e5 pawn, White will have a pair of connected passed pawns, supported by his king, rook and the knight. I just don’t see any source of black counterplay here.
Anand finds 31..Bxg4, which the computer questions but seems to result in a type of fortress on the queenside. Svidler differs in his assessment from Delchev. A chessbomb viewer says: Svidler and Delchev should have a child. He would be a perfect commentator. Not too much, not too little - just right.
Peter comments that his best friend has sent him a link to a Wikipedia article that is very diverting. Look up “lion eating poet in the stone den” he says.
That is Chinese poetry and an English equivalent is "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo", a grammatical sentence in American English, used as an example of how homonyms and homophones can be used to create complicated linguistic constructs.
(Susan Polgar) - (After 43 moves) Only Magnus has chances to win. Black has zero chance to win.
(Nigel Short) – My esteemed colleague Fabiano was very sanguine about Black’s chances of holding but he is not 44, stressed and tired.
Both players appear to want to grind it out and fatigue the other. Wanting something more to say, Svidler tells about trying to program chess moves in Pascal when he was a student.
Sopiko has long since given her position up to Ian Nepomniachtchi, who analyzes alongside Svidler.
(Carlos Sell) – Anand trained hard to endure this kind of position. He watched marathons of General Hospital and The Paul Reiser Show.
(Nigel Short) – Vishy is still holding. However, he just faces a long, gentle roasting on the spit before the draw will be secured.
- A 124-move Korchnoi-Karpov stalemate in 1978 is longest game in a World Championship Match
(Mark Crowther) – Carlsen doesn’t look that happy with Anand’s 61…b5. Anand looks reasonably confident in what he’s doing here.
(Anish Giri) – Looks like a draw to me now. Probably it always was one
(Mark Crowther) – “A draw is always a good result”, advice of Lev Psakhis to a young Peter Svidler.
(Nigel Short) – I am expecting Magnus will eventually play on with R plus N v R. It is pretty drawn, but why not go for the 5% chance?
______
Peter says that there are structures that you get in your games and some you will never get again and to illustrate this to Sopiko quotes the following:
Peter Svidler vs Eric Prie, Top 16 Poule Haute (2009) D15 Slav Defense
He says that at the end, he could move either 35. Qf7 or Qe5 and force Black’s resignation. He thought that Qf7 was quicker, played that and Eric resigned. It was at the team meal three hours later that he realized that if he had played Qe5, 11 of the 16 pieces originally on the board would be on dark squares. If he had realized that then he would have instantly played it. He has come close to duplicating that feat since but not quite.
______
The game is at move 70 and looks like a draw.
(Nigel Short) – Plenty of traps 70..bxc4 seems to be good enough but it is easy to miss the tactical point when you are knackered.
[Manchester Dictionary – “knackered” = exhausted]
- well played Anand
- black looks better now
- that is just a fata morgana
(Sopiko) – I think we will still be here for another hour.
The computer evaluation at move 84 is .20 or less. Now move 100 has been reached. Neither player wants to end this.
Peter says that there is no longer a 50-move rule, it is now a 75-move rule. Is this true?
- only 75 moves for certain positions for a few years, it's currently 50 in all positions
Peter and Sopiko are very tired and Peter in desperation reads out the Buffalo buffalo sentence from above. I wonder if Ken Regan finds this funny?
- Now at move 114 with no sign of ending. It is predicted that it will go to move 155. Peter wonders if Indian fans are outraged at Carlsen still playing on.
- I actually think its okay what Carlsen is doing. he doesn’t break rules and chess is competition after all, and its the World Championship (=important).
DRAW
(Stewart Reuben on the EC Forum): Peter Svidler has just said that he thinks the 50 move rule has been changed to 75. Incredible that top players know so little about the basic rules.
Of course Peter is completely wrong.
The 50 move remains and requires one of the players to claim.
There is an additional rule from 1 July 2014. After 75 moves without a capture or a pawn move, the game is drawn.
There is a similar addition to the Repetition Rule.
After the same position (with the same person to move) has occurred 5 times one after another, it is also a draw.
The purpose of these changes is to prevent players playing on forever with an increment. Also sometimes GMs get obstinate and won't make the claim. Sometimes children don't understand how to claim. Now the arbiter can step in. Previously he had to rely on 'bringing the game into disrepute'. Ljubojevic once repeated 9 times.
Last edited by Wayne Komer; Monday, 17th November, 2014, 03:12 PM.
I get it that you want to play until around, say 76...Rc3. This is the most precise move and it insure that black will either simplify or win white's last pawn.
From that point, Carlsen has to work extra hard to win the last two pawns, which leads to... a trivially drawn endgame. The only logic behind that is to tire Anand by all means possible.
And why in the f-ing hell do you play 121.Rc1 as white? What's the logic? Why not offer a draw and end that in a gentlemanly manner? You want old man Anand to exert himself a little more by making him lift that enormous white rook off the board?
Reminds me of that ridiculous game between Nakamura and Zhu Chen at Wijk ann Zee 2004.
That's the best draw from Anand in the two WCC matches thus far. It has something powerful in it, almost a snub to Carlsen, like saying "I can draw you with a piece down". Much better to have this dynamic play than the miserable defences in the games he lost. So far it's not Carlsen to impress but for Anand to disappoint.
Thus, Magnus had experience winning this R+N vs R endgame, and he did not care what you will think about it.
To be fair, in both cases you mention, the defending side had his king stuck on the side of the board. The Polgar game is something completely different. Her king was in a very delicate position even before they reached R+N against R. She spent a whole lot of time with her king stuck on the h file and Kasparov's pieces were very well placed. I'd never blame a player for pushing a litte more in that case. You have real practical chances there.
In today's game, Anand had all the time he wanted to set up a defense and make sure white wouldn't get in.
And as I said, what's the logic behind playing a move like 121.Rc1. I honestly don't get what is the line of thinking there. You really think Anand will let his rook hang? And thus you try that last little 'trap' because you clearly weren't able to make any progress? Looks childish to me.
Karlovich – While you were playing this game the whole world was discussing whether Vishi Anand knew this line right through to the endgame of R and N vs N.
Anand – No, I didn’t know it that well.
Karlovich – How far did you know it?
Anand – It’s a topical line that has been played a lot.
Carlsen – There is a very narrow path to a draw, 31…Bxg4 is practically the only choice.
Anand – With this move I held and with the exception of a few finesses I didn’t see any obvious way for him to win.
Journalist – Magnus, are you happy with the draw or was this a missed opportunity for you?
Carlsen – A draw is OK. If I missed something I don’t know where it was. He dug in and defended really well.
Journalist – Mr. Anand, how frustrating is it for you to be pressured for hours?
Anand – Not very, if you get the draw. It would be much more frustrating to defend for hours and not get it. You don’t enjoy it but it is part of the territory. Once I went for the piece sac, it is straightforward and tough. You have to choose a set up and go with it. The good thing is that once I settled on a set up I would get ten moves before the next big decision. It was a tough ending for sure.
Journalist – Regarding the endgame arising after Bxg4. Did you ever analyze this before?
Anand – Did I know the exact mechanism? No, I had to work it out at the board. But I have seen similar endgames but I could not remember specific conclusions.
Carlsen – There is not a lot of risk in this line, when you are a point up in the match.
Journalist – Did you ever consider settling for a draw earlier in the game?
Carlsen – In general, there is no harm in playing on. We are used to playing long games and playing the day after.
Anand – Taking on c4 was a very precise move (move 70). It wasn’t too difficult to see.
Journalist – You almost broke the world record for the number of moves made. How tired are you?
Anand – Not terribly. Obviously a long game. The last hour was superfluous.
Carlsen – There is always a slight chance of something happening, so I continued. When he went for an ending of R and four pawns against R and N and two pawns, he already signed up for suffering, so it didn’t make too much difference.
Journalist – Were you annoyed with Magnus dragging out the draw?
Anand – No, not even a little bit.
Comments On-line
(Erwin l’Ami) – Very impressed with the tough decision of going 70…bxc4! and absolutely sure that Vishy will be holding this game now.
- Not boring at all!
I was impressed with the self-assurance Anand emanated after playing 28... Ne5. He must have assessed the position after the piece sacrifice as drawn, and there were quite a few players, not exactly woodpushers, who were at first not so sure about that. Very cold-blooded: the alternative was staying in a slightly unpleasant situation, horizon invisible and no certainty of light behind it. Now he had a position where at least developments would be clear: white would need to play c4 and after that, the necessary pawn exchanges looked possible. You don't make such a decision when your confidence is shaken, so he digested yesterday's bad meal surprisingly well.
Of course Carlsen didn't do badly either. I especially liked 29 Rh8+, forcing black's rook off the sixth rank. Svidler thought it was about taking any possible extra chance, but maybe Magnus didn't like to give black an extra possibility with 29 Bxe5 fxe5 30 Rh5 Ba2!? 31 Rxe5 Rb6 32 b3 c4, when black's rook pawn can get ready to march while white's g-pawn still has some hurdles to take
- If Anand can win next game,the match would be amazing. Otherwise it's all about Carlsen. Tomorrow’s game will determine the championship winner.
- Carlsen actually had winning chances after the piece sac by Anand. Stockfish 5 won the game against itself in 70 moves after 57. c4, I believe it was. Carlsen also had the right idea afterwards according to the engine, but went wrong when he zigzagged his king away from the pawns. The GM commentators weren't wrong when they said it's a draw. A human draw, but it's a computer win, albeit only with a ridiculous amount of moves afterwards.
To those saying that Carlsen wasn't being a sportsman by playing out the position after all pawns were off the board: Caruana said it's normal to play those games out and that he had the same thing happening to him for over 100 moves against Karjakin. So apparently, what Carlsen did was nothing out of the ordinary.
But what a tense game this was. Amazing defense by Anand, I must say. He seems to have already recovered after his loss and played some really strong chess today. I was also very impressed with Carlsen's enginelike play. Had he actually managed the computer win, it would have been no doubt one of his finest games. Very exciting, in my opinion.
- Stockfish 5 would obviously won against itself....... otherwise it would not show the high positive evaluation...
The question is, would stockfish 5 win against Anand? I really doubt it... it is just a case of "horizon effect" of chess engine
- All I can say is...WOW!
(Peter Svidler) – Coming back to the hotel to find the legend of “buffalo buffalo buffalo” spreading like wildfire – priceless! Thanks for bearing with us.
(Silvio Danailov) – Thanks to Magnus Carlsen, the match is played under pure Sofia Rules. Every child can understand why the game is drawn.
Five games to go and Carlsen is the 1/10 favourite and Anand the 5/1 dog. Not quite the slap in the face that the 1/20 and 15/2 odds on the match after the 2nd game but still a bit of an insult to the 5-time World Champion. Anand does have 3 Whites so perhaps he's still worth a bit of a 'flyer' (:
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