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This talk of 3rd party stuff is just media fiction.
Bob, I'll reply more later when I have time.
But in the meantime.....
How can you say that this is "media fiction" when you yourself directly compare the U.S. with Austria, and the *media* article, which you said was important, explains what happened in the run-off election in Austria? You can't have a "run-off" in a two-horse race. The U.S. is not comparable to Austria for this election unless Sanders runs as a third candidate and we get the runoff you're talking about.
Steve
P.S. If it were a three-horse race for U.S. president and I could vote, I would vote for Sanders. I just think Clinton has a better chance in a two-horse race for the reasons I've said.
How can you say that this is "media fiction" when you yourself directly compare the U.S. with Austria, and the *media* article, which you said was important, explains what happened in the run-off election in Austria? You can't have a "run-off" in a two-horse race. The U.S. is not comparable to Austria for this election unless Sanders runs as a third candidate and we get the runoff you're talking about.
Steve
P.S. If it were a three-horse race for U.S. president and I could vote, I would vote for Sanders. I just think Clinton has a better chance in a two-horse race for the reasons I've said.
Steve, you have misunderstood my comments (or I wasn't clear enough).
Yes, there are no runoff elections in USA. The parallel with Austria is simply that the fringe parties/candidates clobbering the establishment parties/candidates due to extreme voter anger and discontent.
"3rd party stuff is just media fiction" - I am referring to media speculation that Sanders will join Green Party or run as an independent. He will support Clinton if and when she gets the nomination. He has said that clearly many times.
You may be correct than Clinton will do better than Sanders against Trump, but there are polls saying otherwise.
Steve, you have misunderstood my comments (or I wasn't clear enough).
Yes, there are no runoff elections in USA. The parallel with Austria is simply that the fringe parties/candidates clobbering the establishment parties/candidates due to extreme voter anger and discontent.
"3rd party stuff is just media fiction" - I am referring to media speculation that Sanders will join Green Party or run as an independent. He will support Clinton if and when she gets the nomination. He has said that clearly many times.
You may be correct than Clinton will do better than Sanders against Trump, but there are polls saying otherwise.
Hi Bob:
The article you wanted me to read was talking about (unless I'm misremembering--always a possibility) a "leader" jumping to another party and then winning the run-off.
Anyway. I know there are no run-offs in the U.S. and likely never will be. They seem very devoted to a two-party system. The notion of more than two is shocking to them (I speak from my side of conversations with Americans about how Canadian politics supposedly work).
I know Sanders won't jump to a third. party/candidate status. You're quite right that that's media frothing. Eventually Sanders will endorse Clinton if she's the clear pick. And he'll exact some sort of price for that endorsement. The Democrats will close ranks around either candidate. Most importantly because the Repulicans, with Trump as their Grand Poobah, are very divided. Their candidate is a complete outsider and loose cannon.
We'll see what happens. Trump has been very smart so far. Don't underestimate him.
We'll see what happens. Trump has been very smart so far. Don't underestimate him.
Steve
I don't underestimate Trump. I think he has a very good chance of being President, which should scare the shit out of all of us.
But I do note that CNN just reported that Trump has chicken out of a debate against Sanders.
I don't underestimate Trump. I think he has a very good chance of being President, which should scare the shit out of all of us.
But I do note that CNN just reported that Trump has chicken out of a debate against Sanders.
He won't want to debate Sanders. He can only attack Sanders as a "pinko" and Sanders has charisma similar to the Donald. So that may not work out so well. And Hillary will pound him mercilessly about his still-being-fudged tax returns.
He won't want to debate Sanders. He can only attack Sanders as a "pinko" and Sanders has charisma similar to the Donald. So that may not work out so well. And Hillary will pound him mercilessly about his still-being-fudged tax returns.
Steve
Hillary has her own issues with tax returns and what they show especially if you go back a few years. Throw in the returns for the Clinton foundation and things get really messy.
Bernie didn't want to talk about email servers but if he had wanted to perhaps he would be the Democratic nominee.
I think that you can toss a coin as to who will win the next U.S. election.
I don't underestimate Trump. I think he has a very good chance of being President, which should scare the shit out of all of us.
But I do note that CNN just reported that Trump has chicken out of a debate against Sanders.
Trump says scary things. Clinton does scary things. I'd pick the loudmouthed boor over the screeching harpy any day.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
I don't underestimate Trump. I think he has a very good chance of being President, which should scare the shit out of all of us.
But I do note that CNN just reported that Trump has chicken out of a debate against Sanders.
It would be silly for Trump to debate Sanders. Sanders is not the Democratic party nominee. At this point it is all about winning the election. The whole point about pretending to want to debate Sanders is to keep Trump's name out there and to embarrass Hillary. The real chicken here is Hillary for not following through on a debate that she previously agreed to (at least that is my understanding). Hillary is probably smart not to engage Sanders in any more debates. She has things locked up. Why would she give him a chance. In chess, we might call this playing with your food.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Saturday, 28th May, 2016, 09:00 AM.
It would be silly for Trump to debate Sanders. Sanders is not the Democratic party nominee. At this point it is all about winning the election. The whole point about pretending to want to debate Sanders is to keep Trump's name out there and to embarrass Hillary. The real chicken here is Hillary for not following through on a debate that she previously agreed to (at least that is my understanding). Hillary is probably smart not to engage Sanders in any more debates. She has things locked up. Why would she give him a chance. In chess, we might call this playing with your food.
I disagree. I think Trump's original idea was terrific. Trump and Sanders share some common ground. Foreign "entanglements" and trade to name two things.
Trump has the opportunity to look Presidential, even a bit deferential/agreeable to Sanders (and his supporters). He can paint himself as anti-establishment and therefore the logical choice for those Sanders supporters who want change. Finally, he looks generous in giving Sanders a chance to get his word out there to the nation. The ratings for such a debate would be YUUUUUGE. Raising a pile of money for say women's shelters wouldn't hurt Trump, either.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
True, and this argument is used to trumpet the argument that Sanders supporters will switch to Trump.
Not gonna happen. Sure, a tiny few will, but the vast majority will support Clinton.
Sanders supporters are too intelligent to fall for the Trump bullshit and circus act.
All arguments seem to assume that Americans will vote the same way in the presidential election as they have in the primaries.
This is a very tricky assumption, since registered independents can vote in primaries for either party in certain states. Also, turnout levels in the primaries, where delegates are selected on a statewide basis, are much lower than in the general election.
But the enormous interest generated by this campaign's presidential nominee races may point to higher turnout levels in the general election. That is good for democracy in general. What it will do to the outcomes has even the experts baffled this time! :)
My second post on this theme is what could happen in the presidential election if none of the candidates (assuming that Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination, and Bernie Sanders runs as an Independent or Green Party candidate) were to be able to win a majority at the Electoral College level in the general election.
The procedure then is that the House of Representatives (Congress) would choose the next president. This has only happened once. In the 1824 presidential election, before the current structured party system took hold, there were four presidential candidates, with none of them winning an EC majority. John Quincy Adams was chosen as President by Congress, despite having fewer EC votes (84) than leader Andrew Jackson (99).
If Sanders does run as a third-party candidate, he would likely have a stronger campaign than Ross Perot in 1992. Perot won nearly 20 million votes, but NO EC votes, and the way he split the right-of-centre vote handed the presidency to Democrat Bill Clinton! :)
True, and this argument is used to trumpet the argument that Sanders supporters will switch to Trump.
Not gonna happen. Sure, a tiny few will, but the vast majority will support Clinton.
Sanders supporters are too intelligent to fall for the Trump bullshit and circus act.
But evidently not smart enough to avoid the pathological liar and warmonger that is HRC.
Tom, you are hilarious.
In the categories of pathological liar and warmonger, none larger that Trump.
He has a HUGE lead in the lying department.
Warmonger, he could start a war with anybody.
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