ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

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  • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

    Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
    Expensive??? Bob, you just posted something about global warming affecting billions of lives. How expensive is too expensive for saving one life? two lives? four lives? eight lives?.... a couple of billion lives?

    I think a law for all NEW buildings is way too inadequate. Retrofit all existing buildings. Desperate times call for desperate measures......

    Yes, megaprojects will cost money.......It's a matter of political will. I'm offering a possible solution, but "too expensive" isn't a good enough reason to throw it away in my opinion :).
    Paul, I was just offering some alternatives. I am sorry if you thought I was rejecting your megaproject ideas. Quite the contrary, I am starting to like the ideas, but I am still concerned about the costs.

    Cost is a legitimate concern (and I am not putting a price on human life), since there are other equally worthy projects that require resources simultaneously, like providing food and shelter to the billions we are trying to save. No sense in saving them from global warming if we can't feed them.

    Not to mention teaching them chess;)

    Another megaproject idea I heard was to cover large areas of the oceans with a tarp that would reflect sunlight back into space like the dwindling icecaps once did. What do you think?
    Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Friday, 11th December, 2009, 04:03 PM.

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    • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

      Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
      Paul, I was just offering some alternatives. I am sorry if you thought I was rejecting your megaproject ideas. Quite the contrary, I am starting to like the ideas, but I am still concerned about the costs.

      Cost is a legitimate concern (and I am not putting a price on human life), since there are other equally worthy projects that require resources simultaneously, like providing food and shelter to the billions we are trying to save. No sense in saving them from global warming if we can't feed them.

      Not to mention teaching them chess;)

      Another megaproject idea I heard was to cover large areas of the oceans with a tarp that would reflect sunlight back into space like the dwindling icecaps once did. What do you think?
      Bob, I hope you don't think I was upset with you. You and I go back a long way and we'll be friends no matter our opinions on one thing or another. I guess my reply sounded strong, I apologize for that.

      You are absolutely right about having to weigh different possible solutions. I think that to begin with, all solutions should be gathered together regardless of cost. Then the collection of them are weighed for cost vs possible effectiveness. Any solution that seems to have a multi-pronged approach and can tackle many aspects of the problem at once should be given high priority, and if cost is the ONLY negative, it should be done regardless (when the problem is as severe as climate change is being portrayed).

      So I was hoping for other negatives to my proposal besides cost. I guess that's why I may have seemed strong against the cost argument.

      Have they actually done studies as to how effective that tarp idea might be? I hadn't heard of it before.

      How is the chess teaching going? I'll bet you're having fun with it, it just seems right up your alley.
      Only the rushing is heard...
      Onward flies the bird.

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      • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

        Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
        Have they actually done studies as to how effective that tarp idea might be? I hadn't heard of it before.

        How is the chess teaching going? I'll bet you're having fun with it, it just seems right up your alley.
        I don't have any details on the tarp idea, it was mentioned somewhere, and I thought what a wonderfully simple idea. I was hoping Paul B. would comment.

        Milton Chess School had it's first graduation day a couple of weeks ago. Mississauga junior program is going strong. We had our AGM this past week, where we presented the kids with some trophies. Also prizes for those kids who kept the best scoresheets! Pictures, courtesy on Vince, are on our website.:)

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        • Re: do it for the turtles and penguins

          Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
          People on Vlad's side resort to breaking in buildings. Remember that in Watergate the bad guys were the ones breaking in, not the other way around...
          Last time I looked it was Greenpeace that broke onto the roof of the Parliament buildings and made the RCMP look rather silly. I think the ecoterrorists should serve hard time.

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          • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

            Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
            Another megaproject idea I heard was to cover large areas of the oceans with a tarp that would reflect sunlight back into space like the dwindling icecaps once did. What do you think?
            I would hate to look at the unintended consequences that would be likely with that one. Far simpler to introduce the Freakonomics idea of a garden hose pumping hydrogen sulfide into the upper atmosphere.

            Last time I looked the ice caps weren't dwindling.

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            • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

              Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
              So now the mask of the bully comes out. But nothing Vlad says can make me weep because I'm occupied laughing at him.
              You are a paper tiger. HTH.

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              • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                Embarrassing Questions.

                But be warned that this guy cheats by using actual data and actual mathematics. You know, like Scientist do (but denialists don't)?

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                • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                  Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
                  Last time I looked the ice caps weren't dwindling.
                  True, the north ice cap has made a small recovery in the last 2 years. However, that was after a dramatic drop in 2007. The stock market analogy would be to claim victory with a rise of 100 points in the Dow Jones after a drop of 500 points the day before. The problem hasn't been solved. Check out this youtube video for details.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3dYhC_AlYw

                  The last 3 years, 2007 & 2008 & 2009, are the 3 lowest years of arctic ice cover on record.
                  Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Sunday, 13th December, 2009, 05:28 PM.

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                  • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                    Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
                    I would hate to look at the unintended consequences that would be likely with that one. Far simpler to introduce the Freakonomics idea of a garden hose pumping hydrogen sulfide into the upper atmosphere.
                    I would hate to look at the unintended consequences of a garden hose pumping hydrogen sulfide into the upper atmosphere either! But then, I am not promoting such a silly idea. The ocean tarp idea is far less silly. Image the winter cover on a backyard pool.:) There would obviously be technical and environment problems to overcome. It would be expensive, no doubt. But please don't compare it to far sillier ideas.

                    While researching the ice cap question, I came across another example of how the climate change deniers are distorting the facts. Listen to this:
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khikoh3sJg8&NR=1

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                    • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                      Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
                      While researching the ice cap question, I came across another example of how the climate change deniers are distorting the facts.
                      http://mr_sedivy.tripod.com/iceman.html

                      It seems to me the climate and conditions haven't changed much over at least the last five thousand years.

                      Some centuries are warmer. Some centuries are colder. Some centuries are the same.
                      Gary Ruben
                      CC - IA and SIM

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                      • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                        Seriously, a tarp over the ocean? Isn't it obvious that's a bad idea? The ocean is alive, uses photosynthesis to convert CO2 to O2. You might as well put a tarp over the Amazon basin for all the harm being proposed.

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                        • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                          Originally posted by Alan Baljeu View Post
                          Seriously, a tarp over the ocean? Isn't it obvious that's a bad idea? The ocean is alive, uses photosynthesis to convert CO2 to O2. You might as well put a tarp over the Amazon basin for all the harm being proposed.
                          Seriously, Yes! Not the entire ocean of course, but perhaps the size of the lost ice caps. The purpose is to mimic the sunlight reflective properties of the lost ice cap. Avoiding harm to the natural process of photosynthesis is one of those environmental challenges I mentioned.

                          A tarp over the Amazon basin? :( Really? That's as silly as the garden hose!

                          Tarp over the ocean, way less silly!:p

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                          • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                            Originally posted by J. Ken MacDonald View Post
                            Do you think that ClimateGate (Climate Gate) has and/or will hurt the movement to do something about what many believe, i.e., Global Warming caused by man?

                            I already know you are strong believers, but, I am curious about the effects of the scandal, for lack of a better word.
                            Another point of view (from yesterday's -Dec 14th- National Post):

                            http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...l-warming.aspx
                            ...Mike Pence: the Lord of the fly.

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                            • Kerry...

                              Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
                              Another point of view (from yesterday's -Dec 14th- National Post):

                              http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...l-warming.aspx

                              Another interesting article...

                              http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138

                              And yet another interesting article...

                              http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2009/...aims-dont-add/

                              The problem is one does not know how much of this stuff was fudged on either side. That which one considers science, another could question. I saw a poll yesterday that said more than 50% of Americans no longer believe in "Global Warming" and another comment somewhere that one of the ice caps had made a comeback. Are they garbage or was the original science garbage. I doubt we will know for sure for a long time.
                              Last edited by Ken MacDonald; Tuesday, 15th December, 2009, 03:36 PM.

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                              • Re: ClimateGate - A Question for Ed Seedhouse and Paul Beckwith

                                Readers' comments are far more interesting (and intelligent) than the column itself

                                http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...l-warming.aspx

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