The One and Only Climate Change thread...

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

I'd be glad to hear what any " gw advocates " have to say about Vlad's reply to parts of my position.

I am no "advocate" of global warming, I'd much rather it didn't happen. Unfortunately the observable facts say pretty unambiguosely that it is indeed happening. The only disputes reasonably left are over how fast it is happening.

None of Vlad's "arguments" are new, and they are all in fact answered quite nicely at the Skeptical Science Answers Page in nice short sentences linked to the actual evidence which you may peruse at your liesure. I recommend you do if you want to educate yourself on this matter.

I would say your statement of beliefs is quite reasonable given the kind of "debate" that is going on in the media these days, but you are mistaken in some areas due to the abysmal state of our current media.

Well, in a dispute over gravity will you believe Vlad, or me, or Einstein?

I'd go with Einstein myself. And the content at the site above comes from actual climate scientists, the closest approach we have to Einsteins in the climate sciences. And while there are indeed some of them who dispute global warming, 97 percent of them accept it as a more or less proven fact.

And by the way, the last ten years have been warmer than it's been for a good hundred thousand years or more, the period in which our civilized human society came to be.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Moreover, warmer temperatures increase agriculture production and creates more land for cultivating food products!

Actually, plants stop growing above 35 to 40 degrees celsius no matter how much CO2 there is for them to feed on. As warming continues there will be more and more times when our agricultural lands will experience this and food production will start to drop unless offset by other factors.

Already large areas of our wheat factory praries approach this in the prime summer growing season.

The rest of your post continues your confusion between weather and climate. As I have pointed out before, the models that predict global warming predict greater extremes of temperature on both ends of the scale, hot and cold.

I notice that you speak of a cold spell in antarctica as if it were evidence against global warming while ignoring the extreme heat in Europe and the East coast of North America this year. Strange, that.

The extreme cold spells we've experienced here and there while the whole earth was warming are typical occurences and to be expected more often as the planet warms. That prediction was made decades ago, but the global warmng deniers still don't get it.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Moreover, warmer temperatures increase agriculture production and creates more land for cultivating food products!

Due to heavy rains in Western Canada, millions of acres of land were not planted this year.

Agriculture is like that. It's too warm, or it's too cold, or it's too wet, or it's too dry.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Due to heavy rains in Western Canada, millions of acres of land were not planted this year.

Agriculture is like that. It's too warm, or it's too cold, or it's too wet, or it's too dry.

But as global temperatures rise this kind of thing will happen more often, with obvious economic consequences.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

But as global temperatures rise this kind of thing will happen more often, with obvious economic consequences.

What are long-term (50y, 100y, 500y) predicted temperatures for average, highest, and lowest values in the GTA (or wherever) ?

[Paul Beckwith]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Canadian work at Dalhousie has shown that the phytoplankton in the ocean have been reduced in numbers by about 40% since 1950. This was published today in the journal "Nature" and is discussed in the Globe and Mail today. The decline is correlated to SSTs (Sea Surface Temperature increases).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/plankton-the-base-of-the-oceans-food-web-steadily-declining/article1654702/

Remember that every second breath you take has Oxygen provided by these phytoplankton. I have not seen anyone discuss oxygen levels in the atmosphere declining since 1950 but I will certainly search for that now (if you find something yourself please post).

On another note; if you live in the Toronto area and want to learn more about climate change and possible solutions you can consider attending a weekend conference in mid-August at Hart House in U. of T.; it is not too expensive:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=140438325981746

[Gary Ruben]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

But as global temperatures rise this kind of thing will happen more often, with obvious economic consequences.

No more Cadillac in the driveway.

[Paul Beckwith]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

A Cadillac in the driveway is fine as long as you leave it in the driveway and never drive it. In addition it should be white or light colored (or silver with high reflectivity). With these colors that reflect sunlight back upwards it will have a higher albedo than the black asphalt on the driveway that it covers up.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

A Cadillac in the driveway is fine as long as you leave it in the driveway and never drive it. In addition it should be white or light colored (or silver with high reflectivity). With these colors that reflect sunlight back upwards it will have a higher albedo than the black asphalt on the driveway that it covers up.

I drive a dark coloured auto and use its air conditioning extensively.

They soon be marketing an auto which runs on sea water. The only catch is you have to get the water from the Gulf of Mexico.

What's your opinion of Enviropigs? Are you familiar with them, as in have you heard of them. :)

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

They soon be marketing an auto which runs on sea water.

Not unless someone finds a way to change the laws of physics. I don't think I'll hold my breath waiting for that.

[Paul Beckwith]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Ed,

The sea water has to come from the Gulf of Mexico; i.e. it has to contain oil

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Actually, plants stop growing above 35 to 40 degrees celsius no matter how much CO2 there is for them to feed on.

That certainly explains why there is so little vegetation at the equator.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

Remember that every second breath you take has Oxygen provided by these phytoplankton. I have not seen anyone discuss oxygen levels in the atmosphere declining since 1950 but I will certainly search for that now (if you find something yourself please post).

Obviously every second breath is not produced by these phytoplankton since there has been no alarm sounded about oxygen levels going down. Given the delight the eco-nut chicken littles take in regaling us with new doomsday scenarios that never come to pass, I think they would have noticed that one. Maybe all the extra plants that Ed assures us can't grow at warmer temperatures are keeping us breathing despite the phytoplankton's decline.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Gino Vanelli assures me that black cars look better in the shade.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: One Layman's ( My ) Position

That certainly explains why there is so little vegetation at the equator.

El Azizia, Libya is 32 degrees North of the equator and the highest temperature ever recorded was there. The greatest deserts on Earth are well north of the equator.

But Vlad never lets a little geographical ignorance stand in his way...