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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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I am also against using the foundation's capital to finance events, however I also would not like to see the membership costs rise.
I would, however, like to see the organisations expenses re-prioritized. The idea of the CFC sponsoring the closed could be looked into, however the money would have to come from somewhere... personally I would rather have a healthy Olympic fund and a healthy closed (at least in zonal years) then the current newsletter-- Contentious, I know.
I am also against using the foundation's capital to finance events, however I also would not like to see the membership costs rise.
I would, however, like to see the organisations expenses re-prioritized. The idea of the CFC sponsoring the closed could be looked into, however the money would have to come from somewhere... personally I would rather have a healthy Olympic fund and a healthy closed (at least in zonal years) then the current newsletter-- Contentious, I know.
I have no idea what pittance Tony is given for producing the newsletter (or even if he gets as much as a 'pittance' !) but I think the newsletter is very well done and one of the very few benefits of membership...
The CFC receives the interest the Chess Foundation makes on it's investments. For the first 9 months of this year we have received (at least in the ledger books) $5,447 from the Foundation. It is considered part of our general revenue stream when we are doing our budgeting.
All life memberships go to the Foundation.
Well, $5447 is a lot more than I was thinking (without knowing the numbers off the top of my head...) - nevertheless, even if the CFC was able to use all of that plus the next 3 months worth to start the Canadian Closed, I think sponsorship would still be required...
If the interest from the Foundation is considered revenue (as I thought it was) then I suppose it merely props up the other expenses as does every source of revenue.
I have no idea what pittance Tony is given for producing the newsletter (or even if he gets as much as a 'pittance' !) but I think the newsletter is very well done and one of the very few benefits of membership...
The CFC financial statements http://www.chess.ca/Gls/10-11GL1.pdf (page 54) show for three months of financial year 2011 the newsletter cost to the CFC was $4450.
No information as to how the newsletter's advertising revenue and the expenses of contributors are accounted for.
I have no idea what pittance Tony is given for producing the newsletter (or even if he gets as much as a 'pittance' !) but I think the newsletter is very well done and one of the very few benefits of membership...
Yes it is well done-- but if you look up what it costs you will find it is more then a pittance (It is the second largest budget line). It is enough to substantially sponsor the closed.
I know this is a contentious issue-- my opinion remains that the value of the newsletter does not balance the cost. Chess news is available from many sources for free-- and free sources are hard to compete with.
Yes it is well done-- but if you look up what it costs you will find it is more then a pittance (It is the second largest budget line). It is enough to substantially sponsor the closed.
I know this is a contentious issue-- my opinion remains that the value of the newsletter does not balance the cost. Chess news is available from many sources for free-- and free sources are hard to compete with.
Fair enough. Free is hard to compete with indeed...
I have some idea what amount of work is required to produce a newsletter - and Tony has done a remarkable job (and I hope he gets more than a couple of dollars an hour!)
The main problem is that the average CFC member (of the 900 or so) *would* be impacted by the cancellation of the newsletter (just recall the reaction to the loss of the printed magazine) whereas it appears the average member could care less about the Closed (or, apparently, the Olympiad teams).
Nobody is putting their money where their mouth or mouse is... that is the bottom line.
IF the CFC took the bold step to raise membership fees to a level that *would* support the Closed, the two Olympiad teams (Men and not-men) and the newsletter, rating system, website ...
I am afraid we would be looking at an annual membership fee of north of $100. That likely would scare off half the members... this leaves a choice of doing the right things for a very low number of paid members or blundering along with insufficient revenue to do much of anything - a nasty zugzwang.
I have no idea what pittance Tony is given for producing the newsletter (or even if he gets as much as a 'pittance' !) but I think the newsletter is very well done and one of the very few benefits of membership...
I don't know about you, but the typical time between receipt of the newsletter and my hitting the delete key is about 3 minutes. I'll agree that it's much better than the previous webzine, that the people involved work hard and all that, but this 50 page opus is of very little value to me. Not to mention, a substantial fraction of the CFC membership does not receive the magazine.
Peter McKillop (what does it cost these days to play one round of golf on a decent, public course),
ah yes, the old it costs so much to play golf so a CFC membership is cheap at twice the price arguement. Well, the costs of a round of golf are pretty much all related to the actual costs of upkeep of that particular golf course, not a tax grab by a national federation and does not have cheaper subsitutes. If you want to play a game of golf with your buddy, you are pretty much locked in to playing on a golf course. To play a game of chess, you can blow off the national federation. But in any case, although hard core CFC members will pay whatever they need to to get a rated game, new and occasional players won't. The CFC has basically lost all involvement in active tournaments in BC and perhaps elsewhere because of cost for insufficient benefit. It has also lost regular rated tournaments for the same reason (I'm thinking of the Jack Taylor Memorial) Even as it is, new players have a 30-50% annual drop out rate. The CFC is facing a long term declining trend of membership and activity http://victoriachess.com/cfc/retention2.php , raising membership fees for no benefit to the member is not the answer.
Comments by various people to the effect of where to find the money to run a 'decent' Closed with decent defined as a largish prize fund plus accommodation and meals for some of the players...
I guess the idea that you run the event you can afford, not the pipe dream is out of the question. And I guess the idea that running the Closed with the only prize being that trip to the FIDE's next event is out of the question too.
Hi Alan;
....
I can't talk about the other Provinces or Territories but maybe some organizers from those locations can comment.
I think BC is running a tournament over Easter it looks like it will a big place.
Is the Keres Open in a shoe box I think not.
Did Fischer not play a Candidates match at U of BC?
The CFC does not contact Organizers!!! They cry HELP we need a place to run the Cdn Closed.
They have tons of places they just don't want to approach the public organizers. Volunteers is a good cop out when things can't get done.
......
as one of the organziers of the Easter event (GPO) and Keres I can tell you that if you want the event in those locations over 9 days,, the budget Morgan Mills presented of $3000 is pretty tight.
The problem is not that I as an organizer am unaware of the CFC's need to have this event organized. The problems are that:
a) under the conditions stated, the numbers don't work
b) there is no joy to be had in undertaking the job.
c) it doesn't match my personal goals for organizing
Yes. After some 30 years without a CFC membership I bought one for the printed magazine. It coincided with the demise of the CFC printed magazine so I didn't bother renewing. I doubt I'll ever buy another CFC membership so you can remove my published rating which has been inactive for 35 years or more. Seniors like FREE. I'm a senior.
I am a life member of the CCCA and have been for decades. I suppose my International titles would qualify me for life membership these day if I were not already a life member. I try to help out by playing when asked.
As a point of interest, I've sold HUNDREDS of memberships for the CFC some years ago. During my years as club president CFC memberships were mandatory. Certainly not a requirement at all chess clubs.
The CFC financial statements http://www.chess.ca/Gls/10-11GL1.pdf (page 54) show for three months of financial year 2011 the newsletter cost to the CFC was $4450.
No information as to how the newsletter's advertising revenue and the expenses of contributors are accounted for.
Any advertizing revenue by the newsletter would be CFC advertizing revenue. Tony pays the columnists from the ~ $1500 per issue we pay him.
I like the newsletter, however the contract with Tony was done before my time on the Executive (in case there are any rotten tomatoes out there being tossed). I believe it expires on April 1.
Seeing as it's only a benefit to CFC members, I can see how some of the ChessTalk followers wouldn't be too happy about spending our money on this.
I would be interested in hearing from all sides of the fence, though - we will have to work on a new budget over the next couple of months.
the budget Morgan Mills presented of $3000 is pretty tight
I'll admit to following this thread with interest, but I haven't presented any budgets!
My only experience with budgeting a chess tournament (from the organizer's side) was an inter-university event a few years back--we didn't have to worry about a prize fund, and we almost exactly broke even. Entry fees were the only revenue, not counting a free location. In retrospect, and seeing the amazing work the Hart House folks are doing now, I think we could have relied more on fundraising and less on charging participants--but I learned long ago that chess organizers are rare and wonderful people, easier to criticize than to emulate. I haven't really got what it takes.
Any advertizing revenue by the newsletter would be CFC advertizing revenue. Tony pays the columnists from the ~ $1500 per issue we pay him.
I like the newsletter, however the contract with Tony was done before my time on the Executive (in case there are any rotten tomatoes out there being tossed). I believe it expires on April 1.
Seeing as it's only a benefit to CFC members, I can see how some of the ChessTalk followers wouldn't be too happy about spending our money on this.
I would be interested in hearing from all sides of the fence, though - we will have to work on a new budget over the next couple of months.
Well, $5447 is a lot more than I was thinking (without knowing the numbers off the top of my head...) - nevertheless, even if the CFC was able to use all of that plus the next 3 months worth to start the Canadian Closed, I think sponsorship would still be required...
If the CFC could pledge just a part of that to the Closed, let say 2500$, finding an organizer would not be a problem. For one thing it would make finding other patrons somewhat easier. To convince others to support a national chess championship when our own Chess Federation of Canada is reluctant to do so is no easy task.
... ah yes, the old it costs so much to play golf so a CFC membership is cheap at twice the price arguement. Well, the costs of a round of golf are pretty much all related to the actual costs of upkeep of that particular golf course, not a tax grab by a national federation and does not have cheaper subsitutes. If you want to play a game of golf with your buddy, you are pretty much locked in to playing on a golf course. To play a game of chess, you can blow off the national federation. But in any case, although hard core CFC members will pay whatever they need to to get a rated game, new and occasional players won't. The CFC has basically lost all involvement in active tournaments in BC and perhaps elsewhere because of cost for insufficient benefit. It has also lost regular rated tournaments for the same reason (I'm thinking of the Jack Taylor Memorial) Even as it is, new players have a 30-50% annual drop out rate. The CFC is facing a long term declining trend of membership and activity http://victoriachess.com/cfc/retention2.php , raising membership fees for no benefit to the member is not the answer.
Comments by various people to the effect of where to find the money to run a 'decent' Closed with decent defined as a largish prize fund plus accommodation and meals for some of the players...
I guess the idea that you run the event you can afford, not the pipe dream is out of the question. And I guess the idea that running the Closed with the only prize being that trip to the FIDE's next event is out of the question too.
I can't really argue with you, Roger, because your points are perfectly valid. My argument was based on the premise that CFC members would make a decision to support excellence with a much more significant amount of money than they do now - not a realistic starting point, I suppose. What about other options for the CFC? For instance, could the CFC be further downsized to the point where only the most essential functions would be maintained (e.g. the liaison with FIDE, "keeper of the rules"/final arbiter of appeals, maintaining a website, calculating and maintaining the ratings systems, awarding national events to successful bidders, etc.) within a budget based on rating fees only (about $25-30k p.a.)? Membership fees could then be significantly reduced (say, $20 adult and $10 junior p.a.) with the money thus generated (another $25-30k p.a.?) being used to support special initiatives, which could include the Olympiad and the Closed.
What do you see as a possible future for the CFC?
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