2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

[Jean Hébert]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Get stuffed Kerry!! You dirty troll.

After what I witnessed at the Canadian Open I thought that Toronto chess was well on the way up. Now I am far less certain. If anyone cannot keep his composure on a message board he should avoid it, especially someone involved in organizing and representing an organisation because he actually hurts that organisation.
Behind a wall of unpleasant (not the same as "unconstructive") criticism there is always something constructive to pick up by an open-minded person willing to learn. Is someone says that a particular tournament site is "the worst he has ever seen", it is certainly a legitimate opinion whose honesty we can be certain of. At least it means that not everyone liked that site, quite a useful information especially if no one else had the courage to say it, which is sometimes the case with chess players. Many simply prefer to quit silently, rather then express constructively :) their reasons for being unsatisfied. Consequently organizers have no clue about what could have been done better.
Would it be better if a bunch of people had hypocritically said: "the site was great" when they actually thought the opposite ? Is it what is meant by being "constructive" ?

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

After what I witnessed at the Canadian Open I thought that Toronto chess was well on the way up. Now I am far less certain. If anyone cannot keep his composure on a message board he should avoid it, especially someone involved in organizing and representing an organisation because he actually hurts that organisation.
Behind a wall of unpleasant (not the same as "unconstructive") criticism there is always something constructive to pick up by an open-minded person willing to learn. Is someone says that a particular tournament site is "the worst he has ever seen", it is certainly a legitimate opinion whose honesty we can be certain of. At least it means that not everyone liked that site, quite a useful information especially if no one else had the courage to say it, which is sometimes the case with chess players. Many simply prefer to quit silently, rather then express constructively :) their reasons for being unsatisfied. Consequently organizers have no clue about what could have been done better.
Would it be better if a bunch of people had hypocritically said: "the site was great" when they actually thought the opposite ? Is it what is meant by being "constructive" ?

I found the tournament site problematic because of the lack of air conditioning and the poor lighting. My understanding was that these concerns were addressed and corrected as early as the 2010 Toronto Thanksgiving tournament (though air conditioning might not have been a concern at that time of the year). I missed the 2010 Thanksgiving tournament because siblings were visiting from out of the area and they take precedence over chess on some occasions. :)

I also find that the quality of lighting at the Macedonian church basement playing hall of past tournaments was not the greatest though not as bad as the site in question for the Ontario Open last year. The 2010 Labour Day tournament conditions were fairly good for the top section at the same venue. I can live with extra heat if I know to wear shorts and a t-shirt but perhaps that prospect should be enough to convince organizers to use sites with air conditioning. I found the Westin Harbour Castle lighting and conditions to be excellent in every way.

[Larry Bevand]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

I found the tournament site problematic because of the lack of air conditioning and the poor lighting. My understanding was that these concerns were addressed and corrected as early as the 2010 Toronto Thanksgiving tournament (though air conditioning might not have been a concern at that time of the year). I missed the 2010 Thanksgiving tournament because siblings were visiting from out of the area and they take precedence over chess on some occasions. :)

I also find that the quality of lighting at the Macedonian church basement playing hall of past tournaments was not the greatest though not as bad as the site in question for the Ontario Open last year. The 2010 Labour Day tournament conditions were fairly good for the top section at the same venue. I can live with extra heat if I know to wear shorts and a t-shirt but perhaps that prospect should be enough to convince organizers to use sites with air conditioning. I found the Westin Harbour Castle lighting and conditions to be excellent in every way.

Hi Vlad,

You are the kinda fellow I want at my event in the Laurentians next summer..

I love your attitude!

We spoke at the Canadian Open...through the good and bad times :).

Can I count on you to play next year at our event :)

Larry

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

I found the tournament site problematic because of the lack of air conditioning and the poor lighting. My understanding was that these concerns were addressed and corrected as early as the 2010 Toronto Thanksgiving tournament (though air conditioning might not have been a concern at that time of the year). I missed the 2010 Thanksgiving tournament because siblings were visiting from out of the area and they take precedence over chess on some occasions. :)

I also find that the quality of lighting at the Macedonian church basement playing hall of past tournaments was not the greatest though not as bad as the site in question for the Ontario Open last year. The 2010 Labour Day tournament conditions were fairly good for the top section at the same venue. I can live with extra heat if I know to wear shorts and a t-shirt but perhaps that prospect should be enough to convince organizers to use sites with air conditioning. I found the Westin Harbour Castle lighting and conditions to be excellent in every way.

Hi Vlad,

I've visited the ACC on a couple of occasions on Monday this year. The temperature with AC has definitely been installed and lighting improved. Not sure what's considered "optimal lighting" since it seems chess players always want more of it :)

Alex F.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Hi Vlad,

You are the kinda fellow I want at my event in the Laurentians next summer..

I love your attitude!

We spoke at the Canadian Open...through the good and bad times :).

Can I count on you to play next year at our event :)

Larry

Larry, if I can possibly make it, I will. It is hard for me to plan out that far with my current situation which is a bit uncertain. I imagine that the best way would be to fly to Montreal from Windsor via Porter airlines which often has great seat sales and then to find a way to the site from there. I plan to use Porter for at least one of the Ottawa tournaments as well within the next year or so.

The prospects of paying on the order of $200 or $300 for round trip air fare instead of the $600 or more that the major Canadian Airline(s) like(s) to charge certainly opens up some possibilities that were not there before.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Hi Vlad,

I've visited the ACC on a couple of occasions on Monday this year. The temperature with AC has definitely been installed and lighting improved. Not sure what's considered "optimal lighting" since it seems chess players always want more of it :)

Alex F.

I understood from comments by Bryan Lamb in advance of the Thanksgiving tournament, I believe, that all of the conditions had been improved. The lighting in that side room at the 2010 Labour Day tournament where the top section played was ideal as far as I could see.

[John Brown]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

I've got to thank John Brown, too. Even if much of his criticism is not constructive, or even coherent, it's been making for some lively discussion. He's the one provoking Hugh to the irate comedy that Aman, for one, is enjoying. If nothing else, at least our post is constantly getting bumped. :) You know, I think John actually wants to attend this event that he constantly maligns... Maybe he's hoping we'll throw him a prodigal son's banquet?

HI Marcus;
I always play except I think about 3 times. at Labour Day. It is the only time the old guard shows up. Some guys I have not seen for a year until Labour Day.

Whatever gave you and Hugh the idea I was not playing?

I'm sure by now you have heard on your website comments from some of those who don't use chess talk.

Personally, regardless of cost if you knew you could not have the whole weekend at the Annex Club then a more attractive draw with your high entry fee would have been the Westin.

I might also add that the High entry fee at Kitchener's Amateur Championship had a poor turnout. Was it because the fee went up $20 or was it the other events etc.? No one will speak up but the ones I spoke to who did not attend it was because of the fee increase. However, I got lucky in my last round game and netted a prize and a Trophy. Finally My Confidence is back!!!!

Splitting locations also may split your entry pool.
I have said it many times before. Throw out sectional tournaments have one Open section charge one fee and give the 20-25 Score Winning players the money in prizes. That way everyone has a chance to win one of 20-25 prizes.

If you compare 2010 CDN Open to 2011 the lighting was far better in 2010 upstairs. A few of us even went upstairs to the old room a floor above and the room was brighter. I check my self sometimes before I speak incoherently.

The biggest upset for me will be when I lose to a kid they won't be able to tell their friends the beat that Old woodpusher John Brown.
I'll have to go by my new title Old plastic pusher Charlie Brown. Well at least my body won't be molding in the Grave this time.

[Hugh Siddeley]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Behind a wall of unpleasant (not the same as "unconstructive") criticism there is always something constructive to pick up by an open-minded person willing to learn.

When people are working hard trying to organize an event do you think it's helpful for us to hear "the worst site I've ever seen" etc.. Such comments do not help in the least. How can we pick up something constructive from that? Good luck answering that one! Go on, be open-minded!

After what I witnessed at the Canadian Open I thought that Toronto chess was well on the way up. Now I am far less certain.

If you want to judge Toronto chess from what transpires on a message board maybe you need to get out a little more.

[Hugh Siddeley]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

A proposal to Marcus and Hugh Siddley:
I'll make you both a bet. I believe you won't crack 150 players at Labour Day.
If I lose you get 2 beers each on me at Madisons I like their BEER.
If I win you gotta buy me 4 Beers each.
You game ?
I never back down on a Bet. So my word is my promise.
But you have to sit through me showing my wins and loses at Labour day with your analysis as a seal of approval.

So much shyte-talking about our tournament and you want us to sit down with you and have a beer after? What planet are you from?

And I don't recall it saying anywhere on the flyer that chess hobos are welcome. Go play in the park you monkey.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Discussion of Amateur entries going nowhere fast.

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Personally, regardless of cost if you knew you could not have the whole weekend at the Annex Club then a more attractive draw with your high entry fee would have been the Westin.

I might also add that the High entry fee at Kitchener's Amateur Championship had a poor turnout. Was it because the fee went up $20 or was it the other events etc.? No one will speak up but the ones I spoke to who did not attend it was because of the fee increase.

Hi John (and in general),

The hike in entry fee is something that should be noted. But I think it's been about time. Chess has been done at a relatively amateur level, in my opinion, up until recently (initiatives of Brian Fiedler in my opinion which others have adopted) -- Sorry, I am speaking strictly in Toronto, hard for me to compare in other places.

As for the Kitchener I think it's important to mention that it was a 4-day tournament with 7 rounds. The fact that it took place after a rich Summer of chess, and that Toronto has gotten its act together, and Hamilton and other nearby places are booming, it may be that participation may be split a bit more overall.

If chess is to become more professional, with better sites, better service, better prizes, etc etc... then fees must go up. It's a bold initiative but long overdue. Chess as we've known it needs to adapt and evolve, I feel like we're actually falling behind, or have been. A $95 entry fee for a 6 rounder in a downtown premium location is not so unthinkable. And I think it'll be the way of the future, and go up. So the question is... from an organizational point of view, how to improve while hiking fees, how to professionalize it, and so on. Realistically, a hundred bucks for a weekend's entertainment, if this is our passion (and anyone willing to spend a weekend doing little else than playing chess, this is a passion) then it's a bargain.

Without trying to make it sound like all honey and roses or blindly support the organizers, I think the ACC has come a long way. And sure I think constructive criticism is important. Having said that, this group went from nothing to something quite stable and a driving force in Toronto chess, in less than a year. That ought to be worth something! These guys are doing things right (surely with improvements to be made as everyone who is starting out). It only makes sense to support the initiative, and see what they come up with, where they take us, and how this will enrich the community.

Barring any unforeseen situation, I will play in the Labour Day.
See you there,


Alex F.

[John Brown]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Exactly man! These guys have no idea. Take a round of golf (which I doubt any of them have ever played). 150 bones for maybe 4 hours to complete a round. ZERO prizes. Chess tournament: $100 for 6 games (say you play six 4-hour games, that works out to just over $4/hr of playing time with chances to win a prize). Compare that to nearly $40/hr for playing golf with no chance of getting that back...

Here in Toronto we had an amazing site for many years, the Primrose Hotel. Why no more? The owner showed up one day and said it looked like a homeless convention, words from Mark Dutton! Primrose was history. We're trying to go up-market just fractionally and there's this huge outcry. It's the weeds, they might die. Can you blame us for trying?

I don't think the guys who got their cars broken into would agree about the Primrose.

I like to think that chess tournaments are to be for the enjoyment of all not just those who can afford to pay high rates. I guess that is one reason that the common person on fixed or limited incomes has to revert to playing putt-putt golf at amusement parks.

You want high entry fees to bring in top players yet who do you take the money from to get these top players?

It is fine to make the ones who want to play the top players pay more.

But let others pay a reasonable price to enjoy their hobby and the bonus is they may get some kind of Prize and watch the elite play. Plus they will support the Organizers by coming out.
But if you chip away at your base by causing more and more to not come then the Top will fall and it will fall in the organizers laps to pay the shoring up costs not the guys who stayed at home.

I know Bryan has lost money Organizing events so have I and many others before us have lost as well. But the entry fees were less and more people came out and played. But they always took from the bottom group when their top prizes were a little light.
As for Spassky Fischer match bringing me out to tournaments I must say that is wrong. Martin Bucholz went to my High School and I used to go to his home once in awhile and he showed me the beauty of what can be done with the chess pieces the reason he studied so much. The Central Peel Chess Club won that year In Peel County and our team after I graduated came second in Cevlend at the nationals.
No a common chess player who became great spurred my interest in chess.

Some the PEEL BOYS as we call ourselves still play in my tournaments. Chess should be for everyone not just the Elite.

[Hugh Siddeley]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

And ff's sake change your avatar. I have nothing but respect for Doc Brown and good memories about that movie. Maybe a picture of a tombstone you crafty coffin-dodger.

[Larry Bevand]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Hugh...what are you trying to accomplish with your posts?

Larry

[John Brown]

Re: 2011 Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Register Now

Hi John (and in general),

The hike in entry fee is something that should be noted. But I think it's been about time. Chess has been done at a relatively amateur level, in my opinion, up until recently (initiatives of Brian Fiedler in my opinion which others have adopted) -- Sorry, I am speaking strictly in Toronto, hard for me to compare in other places.

As for the Kitchener I think it's important to mention that it was a 4-day tournament with 7 rounds. The fact that it took place after a rich Summer of chess, and that Toronto has gotten its act together, and Hamilton and other nearby places are booming, it may be that participation may be split a bit more overall.

If chess is to become more professional, with better sites, better service, better prizes, etc etc... then fees must go up. It's a bold initiative but long overdue. Chess as we've known it needs to adapt and evolve, I feel like we're actually falling behind, or have been. A $95 entry fee for a 6 rounder in a downtown premium location is not so unthinkable. And I think it'll be the way of the future, and go up. So the question is... from an organizational point of view, how to improve while hiking fees, how to professionalize it, and so on. Realistically, a hundred bucks for a weekend's entertainment, if this is our passion (and anyone willing to spend a weekend doing little else than playing chess, this is a passion) then it's a bargain.

Without trying to make it sound like all honey and roses or blindly support the organizers, I think the ACC has come a long way. And sure I think constructive criticism is important. Having said that, this group went from nothing to something quite stable and a driving force in Toronto chess, in less than a year. That ought to be worth something! These guys are doing things right (surely with improvements to be made as everyone who is starting out). It only makes sense to support the initiative, and see what they come up with, where they take us, and how this will enrich the community.

Barring any unforeseen situation, I will play in the Labour Day.
See you there,


Alex F.

Hi Alex I would not call the Bathurst Site a Quality site if you play in the big hall. Sure elite players get quiet well lit rooms. The U2000 except for maybe the top two boards play in the Darker areas.
Yes the club has done great. But what does this have to do with running quality Chess Tournaments.
I 'm not complaining about the Entry fees if I can afford them I go. But there also has to be a fair way of distributing prizes so that everyone has a chance to win . You say to run quality tournaments you have to raise entries yet you expect lower than U2000 players to pay higher entries and not get a shot at the First Prizes unless they even pay more to move up. Then you punish these lower rated players by saying you can't get top Prizes so settle with lower prizes because we did not get our entries and we need to pay the top group. Creating bigger and better tournaments is the way to go YES but you have to get rid of the Sections or the section players will not show up to shore up your foundations.If you charge them the same price but offer them a lower return for their money.
It's fine if you are above 2000 you get all the perks. But don't let the lower players play in the street.
I think that is what was the fuel for the French and Russian Revolutions poor wanted what the rich had and got tired of paying the shortfalls.