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There are bylaws about what is allowed for the public to do in a park - in Toronto, no dogs off leashes, except in designated areas. There are others.
When myself and then a few of us used to have a picnic for a group of up to a few hundred people we had to get a Park Permit. I forget how much it cost. It was back around 1990. It was for the people who used to frequent our online bulletin boards. We couldn't just show up. It was the big park on Brimley Rd in Scarborough. The picnic lasted about 5 hours.
Even the permit didn't allow us to use the park over night.
Zeljko, you have valid point here. I suggest we should build igloos with the first snowstorm! Who needs tents.
Since I was visiting the bank and library, I decided to take a walk through the area. Adelaide (main thoroughfare) and King (same) Streets are closed with police vehicles all along both streets. Jarvis from King to Richmond has 4 lanes, three of which are completely (full for the two blocks) of police vehicles. Even a block away, police vehicles are present. On Front Street, also police presence, probably to ensure the big windows at Metro aren't damaged. On Jarvis Street, I saw a line of police officers simply waiting. As I passed by, I heard a radio squawk and 10-12 officers moved across the street into the park. At least another 20 were in that area awaiting instructions. I saw at least 6 police buses. I asked one officer if they were to bring officers in or take the protesters out. It was to bring the officers in. There were still some tents standing and flat in the park, also still a few dozen people (Protesters?) remaining in a couple of small groups.
BRAVO to our police department!
I would hate to be trying to get through that area in rush hour.
Last edited by Peter McKillop; Wednesday, 23rd November, 2011, 05:02 PM.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Well!! That certainly explains why the RCMP didn't have time to taser anyone to death at Canadian airports during that time period.
Ah, Peter! Your bitterness about the occupy protest and the G20 is showing. So, take an unrelated shot from the past. A week after the G20 demonstrations/criminal actions of many protestors, I was still congratulating police officers I met on the street.
But, all this merely goes to show where your and my sympathies lie! I respect your right to have a different viewpoint from mine.
The police action during the G20 was a massive violation of the citizens' right of free speech and protest. Most of the protesters had nothing to do with any violence against people or property. This was a small group, whom the police rightfully could try to counter and arrest. Most of the arrests were unwarranted, as shown by the great number of dropped charges ( and many innocent citizen protesters did spend some time in incarceration ).
The police seem to have learned something from their G20 debacle. I believe they reasonably dealt with peaceful, non-violent civil disobedience by some ( illegal park occupation according to our judicial system ), and legal protest on public property by other law-abiding citizens. They and the protesters acted reasonably to terminate this particular strategy of the Occupy Toronto movement. Though I suspect some of the few trespass charges laid will be found to be unwarranted action by the police.
The police action during the G20 was a massive violation of the citizens' right of free speech and protest. Most of the protesters had nothing to do with any violence against people or property. This was a small group, whom the police rightfully could try to counter and arrest. Most of the arrests were unwarranted, as shown by the great number of dropped charges ( and many innocent citizen protesters did spend some time in incarceration ).
The police seem to have learned something from their G20 debacle. I believe they reasonably dealt with peaceful, non-violent civil disobedience by some ( illegal park occupation according to our judicial system ), and legal protest on public property by other law-abiding citizens. They and the protesters acted reasonably to terminate this particular strategy of the Occupy Toronto movement. Though I suspect some of the few trespass charges laid will be found to be unwarranted action by the police.
Bob
I suspect many CT'ers have a different viewpoint from mine! That is their right.
Funny thing, though, all I seem to recall from the G20 events were the smashing of very expensive windows and a burning of a police car. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I know one thing, I stayed away from the G20 stuff so I wouldn't get caught up in anything. Others didn't and, alas, got into some trouble that they may not have deserved. If one does not want to get burned, don't play with fire.
I often note that protestors wear masks. Now, why would they do that if they weren't expecting to get into some trouble? I found it amusing that one such protestor standing beside a police officer yesterday who was being interviewed tried to get a word in edgewise, but the police officer refused to be interrupted. So, he took his mask down to be heard better (I assume), and then pulled it up again. Of course, too late if he wanted to avoid being on camera. Maybe he was just concerned about his physical health OR maybe his fiscal health if someone he knew or at his job saw him. Regardless, it was amusing!
As someone who lives very close to both these events, I was/am very happy with our police action. Today, one could see the groups of officers talking and joking, not getting upset at all. Maybe the Toronto police have learned from the G20 stuff. Maybe the protestors have learned as well. Take it a little easier lest one causes problems. The real problem with the G20 stuff was our PM holding it in downtown Toronto. Even a neophyte such as I knew that would bring all the crazies out and cause big problems. (Take a pill, guys, I wasn't calling all demonstrators crazy!)
Ah, Peter! Your bitterness about the occupy protest and the G20 is showing. So, take an unrelated shot from the past. A week after the G20 demonstrations/criminal actions of many protestors, I was still congratulating police officers I met on the street.
But, all this merely goes to show where your and my sympathies lie! I respect your right to have a different viewpoint from mine.
Not about Occupy or G20, Ken. About Robert Dziekański. I find lack of accountability very disturbing. The RCMP brass couldn't even do the right thing and apologize to his mother on their own initiative. Had to wait to make sure they weren't going to get their sorry asses sued first. Pathetic; a national disgrace. They should be disbanded, just as the Canadian Airborne was.
My comment was prompted by mention of the RCMP in the link to the Globe and Mail posted by Paul Beckwith.
Last edited by Peter McKillop; Wednesday, 23rd November, 2011, 05:32 PM.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Not about Occupy or G20, Ken. About Robert Dziekański. I find lack of accountability very disturbing. The RCMP brass couldn't even do the right thing and apologize to his mother on their own initiative. Had to wait to make sure they weren't going to get their sorry asses sued first. Pathetic; a national disgrace. They should be disbanded, just as the Canadian Airborne was.
My comment was prompted by mention of the RCMP in the link to the Globe and Mail posted by Paul Beckwith.
They were 'disbanded' once which is why CSIS was created. They have not been doing all that well lately. They are not front line in this particular situation though; as well the investigators in the article quoted were from the OPP.
Beckwith is firmly in fruit loop territory. Behind every smelly protester and every pile of human feces left by the rabble he sees an RCMP plot. Will the atrocities never end?????
Ah, Peter! Your bitterness about the occupy protest and the G20 is showing. So, take an unrelated shot from the past. A week after the G20 demonstrations/criminal actions of many protestors, I was still congratulating police officers I met on the street.
But, all this merely goes to show where your and my sympathies lie! I respect your right to have a different viewpoint from mine.
I think that my sympathies are more similar to yours in general than most people on this board but I still get really concerned when police and politicians engage in illegal excesses. I don't particularly count the overall G20 shenanigans as an example of police excess as much as they were an example of political excess in the case of Ontario's politicians creating and temporarily enforcing somewhat fictional laws using the police as their shock troops.
In the case of the RCMP, if four or five of you are unable to take out a man armed with a stapler without killing him then you shouldn't be in that line of work or at the very least should be forced to take some remedial aikido lessons. Further if you demonstrably lie in the course of your report or testimony then you should be liable for the same type of obstruction of justice and perjury/lying charges and jail time that those one percenters Conrad Black and Martha Stewart got. Mind you I think both Black and Stewart got railroaded. Stewart's sentence is particularly galling given the fact that members of the congress and senate routinely trade on inside information and make huge profits as a result according to recent media reports.
I think the police officer who beat up the semi-disabled specialist in Windsor probably deserves some serious jail time but I doubt that he'll get it.
I re-read what I wrote on the G 20 and should make clear that the excesses directed to non-protesters who where in the wrong place at the wrong time concerns me more than the instances where police laid a beating on protesters who were engaged in violent actions. I think the police did not move in quickly enough to stop violence. Anyone wearing a mask and commiting violent acts should have been dealt with by sharpshooters targeting sensitive spots with rubber bullets.
If the police were shooting people wearing masks they would be shooting a lot of their own people. In the protest at Montebello a while back it was the police wearing the black masks and the legitimate protesters confronted them and tried to remove their black masks. This is a fact, but I know that some people have trouble with facts.
Vlad, did you hear that people who watch your favorite news station Fox News have less knowledge about news than people who watch no news at all. That is because most of the "news" from Fox is make-believe... would you actually read the CBC link and the Globe and Mail links that I posted...
I am surprised that you think the police are above infiltrating the Occupy groups, why would they not. Think like a chess player. Get inside the group, and then do things to make it lose public support. Exactly the same tactics that were used at the G20, the G20 tactics used are factually supported by the Globe and Mail and the CBC reports just released today...no wild theory, it makes perfect sense...like I said, think a little like a chess player...by the way, I would rather be a fruit loop than a cream puff as in your case...
.....given the fact that members of the congress and senate routinely trade on inside information and make huge profits as a result according to recent media reports.
Thanks for reminding me Vlad. Yesterday I caught the tail end of a TV interview about a new book on this topic, but then I didn't get a chance to follow up. The new book is called "Throw them all out". It deals with insider trading in congress. I see there was also a 60 minutes episode this week as well. I missed it. Anyhow, it appears members of congress in the USA are not bound by insider trading rules. Astounding as that sounds. Is there no end to the stupidity and corruption in US politics? Here is a clip:
If the police were shooting people wearing masks they would be shooting a lot of their own people. In the protest at Montebello a while back it was the police wearing the black masks and the legitimate protesters confronted them and tried to remove their black masks. This is a fact, but I know that some people have trouble with facts.
Vlad, did you hear that people who watch your favorite news station Fox News have less knowledge about news than people who watch no news at all. That is because most of the "news" from Fox is make-believe... would you actually read the CBC link and the Globe and Mail links that I posted...
I am surprised that you think the police are above infiltrating the Occupy groups, why would they not. Think like a chess player. Get inside the group, and then do things to make it lose public support. Exactly the same tactics that were used at the G20, the G20 tactics used are factually supported by the Globe and Mail and the CBC reports just released today...no wild theory, it makes perfect sense...like I said, think a little like a chess player...by the way, I would rather be a fruit loop than a cream puff as in your case...
facts? was that in a peer reviewed journal? then it must be true
no one should be casually talking about shooting people, so now you are going to tell us that all the G20 black swarm or whatever were police officers?
there has been violence perpetrated at every G20 summit, this one was obviously going to be no different, the police had reasonable and probable grounds to believe this and it was their duty to try to prevent this by infiltrating these violent groups
yes there were civil rights violations and that should never have happened as far as the tactics used on the day, however when Canadians had a chance to express their displeasure over the whole process they elected a Conservative majority government
it is a fact that the police infiltrated anarchist groups and the like who proposed violence during the G20, it is only conjecture that the police made them do it, actually it's the media defense of those same anarchists, the ones who plea bargained and accepted jail terms - perhaps because they are aware of how strong the evidence was against them, certainly they were willing to go to jail rather than have it come out in public court
the same type of defense was used by the Toronto 18, until that fact was proven to be untrue
there isn't a violent group out there that doesn't blame someone else for their violence, be it the IRA, the FLQ, the 9/11 perpetrators, the Air India bombers etc etc etc
I can understand that you may support this political cause or that political cause but I don't see how you come across as condoning the use of violence by these groups
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 23rd November, 2011, 09:31 PM.
Facts? There was video of the whole thing, and in fact the Quebec police admitted that these people were undercover officers planted to impersonate black bloc nasties. What more do you want; look it up yourself...
Vlad was the one talking about shooting people with rubber bullets, I was responding to his points, I suppose you did not read his comment. Complain to him about talking like this, you are barking up the wrong tree with me.
Never have I condoned the use of violence. Stop making things up. Be aware that whatever you say publicly could be used against you later.
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