FIDE level chess in Canada

[Nikolay Noritsyn]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Mikhail,

Politicians often use "we" and "us", but some of them have real supporters, so it makes the statement at least a little bit valid.
Could you tell us chesstalkers, who belongs to the group "we" and "us" you mention?

Nikolay

[Jean Hébert]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think we both have the same length of experience, though mine is " class " and yours " elite ".

You would also be wrong in feeling any kind of superiority on that field. I spend most of my chess time teaching and chatting with ordinary players, sometimes even beginners, with young players promising and not so promising, and their parents. At tournaments I also mostly hang out with the average guy and casually play and talk weekly with my chess club's members where no one is above 1900. I am well aware of their needs and points of view.
Chess politicians love to put "elite" and other players up against one another, in order to appear as the wise ones, the only ones capable of uniting conflicting interests, when in reality they are often the source of the problems. The interests of the stronger and the weaker, far from conflicting with each other, actually complement each other when understood and channelled properly.

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

I could live with no real prospects at prizes if I had opportunities to play some strong players. Class prizes are a mugs game as you point out. Only the hotels make money when it comes to out of town tournaments.

If I believed that I didn't contribute anything to the game itself then I would probably stop being a CFC governor and teaching children to play chess. An NM strength player or an 1800 player even a 1600 player can contribute something to the game by helping a child learn how to play a simple rook ending or checkmate a king with a king and queen or king and rook or by organizing a 1400 player children's tournament or helping someone else by volunteering at such an event. We all contribute what we can.

Hi Vlad,

You make some good points, but I clearly meant making money from playing chess. If you have a job teaching, promoting chess, even organizing events, good for you! I am totally for that. It enriches the chess community, brings people in, etc... That's good for the community, maybe for you, maybe for people who want to learn chess. It doesn't contribute to the game itself. In my opinion, only professionals do that. By the game itself I mean ideas in chess, variations, etc...
Making money from chess (teaching, working in) is fine, but when it comes to playing, it's a different story in my mind.

Alex F.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

But human mentors are less needed now, don't you think? Kids today
are just sparring with their engines, practicing on software like
Chess Hero, memorizing huge numbers of opening lines and master games,
and winning tournaments with much less experience than in the past.

This "no mentor approach" does not seem to work well for young canadians if we look at their results at the last WYCC. The truth of the matter is that with this abundance of tools and information available to them, young players need mentor help more than ever to profitably use those tools. Left to themselves they just taste everything with no sense of purpose and end up more confused than anything else. The human factor is still vital, but its nature has changed. It has become more guidance than teaching.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

You and I, Bob, are weak. So is a 2200 and so is a 1200. I don't see why anyone below IM strength could think he/she should ever be winning any money from playing chess. We don't contribute anything to the game itself.

I could live with no real prospects at prizes if I had opportunities to play some strong players. Class prizes are a mugs game as you point out. Only the hotels make money when it comes to out of town tournaments.

If I believed that I didn't contribute anything to the game itself then I would probably stop being a CFC governor and teaching children to play chess. An NM strength player or an 1800 player even a 1600 player can contribute something to the game by helping a child learn how to play a simple rook ending or checkmate a king with a king and queen or king and rook or by organizing a 1400 player children's tournament or helping someone else by volunteering at such an event. We all contribute what we can.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Having these class prizes is promoting mediocrity.

It is a slippery area. Slipping starts when an entry fee is high.
When a prize fund is based only on entry fees, players have an absolute right to demand class prizes. (It works slightly differently - players simple do not go to tournaments without classes prizes).

Alex, you as HH organizers may try to reduce fee, i.e., set as low as possible, just to get common Open prizes, and see the outcome. Who knows, maybe you'll need three Great Halls to sit crowds :D

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

You and I, Bob, are weak. Alex Ferreira

Hi Alex:

Well, we do agree on one thing - the above! Though I'm not so sure about you!

Bob A

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Hi Jean:

In the past I've promoted the " Level Playing Field " prize distribution.

Each section pools its own entry fees. Each section pays a percentage of all tournament expenses, so that all are covered. The balance of fees left in the section are the prize fund.

The section with the most players gets the biggest prize fund!

Any problem with this?

Bob A

Hi Bob,


Firstly I'd like to say that I am speaking as a player and not an organizer.

I disagree with this entirely. Having these class prizes is promoting mediocrity. Most tournaments I've been to, the lower classes subsidize the top section, and so they should. Some people call me elitist, but I am actually quite indifferent as to whether an elite player has or not to pay an entry fee, so long as the prize fund is quite substantial.

It's incomprehensible to me how so many weak players seem to legitimately believe they should be in contention for a "prize". Truth is, there's very little money in chess (playing). Professionals have to teach to make money off chess. Whatever little money exists in chess, in my opinion, should be to improve the quality of tournaments (which is beneficiary to all players) and then prizes to the top finishers, in the top section.
One interesting example I can think of are the Guelph tournaments. Hal only gives prizes to the top section, although I don't think lower sections subsidize the top section. However, bottle water, fruit, coffee, granola bars are provided. Many players seem to like this format enough and the "classes" don't seem to be suffering that much in participation. Winners in the lower classes get a neat trophy, a symbol of achievement amongst our weak peers, great!
Over the past two Summers, I had the opportunity to play in a couple of tournaments in Greece, and all the tournaments over there seemed to follow a very identical format. One section open swiss, 9 rounds, only the top 10 finishers get prizes. Then they had a prize for top woman and a prize for best age category finisher (top finisher U18, U16, U14, U12). Everyone played together in one section, and people seemed quite content with that.

You and I, Bob, are weak. So is a 2200 and so is a 1200. I don't see why anyone below IM strength could think he/she should ever be winning any money from playing chess. We don't contribute anything to the game itself. It really bothers me this North American chess culture, particularly in the USA, where people really think their garbage chess should net them anything. I am (perhaps foolishly) of the opinion that we should all be playing chess for the love of the game, and that the elite players should in addition play for something else, since they (also, ideally) contribute to chess.
Someone gave this example once and I've repeated it and will again. When we go to the movies, we spend $15 per person on ticket alone these days it seems. $30 if you want to take someone, plus parking, plus popcorn or dinner etc... a 4 hour evening can cost $50-100. I believe chess tournaments range from $50-100 for 2-3 days or something like 30 hours worth of entertainment.
Surely I've won a few prizes in chess tournaments, and I welcome them as a neat bonus, not something I had been looking forward to. At best, it covered my expenses for the weekend.
Anyone out there who is not at least an IM and thinks he/she should be entitled to get money from playing chess, you're weak. Quit whining and get a McJob. You'll make more money over a weekend and it's guaranteed!

This is nothing against you Bob, just responding to the idea you presented. Unfortunately many people share that view and I am strongly against it.


Alex Ferreira

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

No Googling needed, as the virus checkers I
have already deleted the internet saboteur.

Good for you. Some of those re-directors are quite nasty, and requires a lot of time to be removed.

[Ed Zator]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

The link is fine. Do you get redirects if you search Google for antiviruses?

No Googling needed, as the virus checkers I
have already deleted the internet saboteur.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Not seeing the video, I don't get the joke either.
Or Bob Armstrong (not Guillanders) in the Dangerfield role either.
But the virus may've been caused by hijacking the posted link
(which connected me to an infected website), not necessarily
something posted on Youtube or Chesstalk.

The link is fine. Do you get redirects if you search Google for antiviruses?

[Ed Zator]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

I really hope this is not some kind of a virus that you guys cooked up lol. I do not thing anyone will want to be laughing with you after seeing their computer getting crushed!

Not seeing the video, I don't get the joke either.
Or Bob Armstrong (not Guillanders) in the Dangerfield role either.
But the virus may've been caused by hijacking the posted link
(which connected me to an infected website), not necessarily
something posted on Youtube or Chesstalk.

[Ed Zator]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

You fail to grasp that a high rated player dropping out of chess is a big loss for the community, especially if he writes, teaches and shares his knowledge and experience in many ways. All that is lost for further generations of players, especially the young and up and coming ones.

That was certainly true up until the Kasparov era, say.

But human mentors are less needed now, don't you think? Kids today
are just sparring with their engines, practicing on software like
Chess Hero, memorizing huge numbers of opening lines and master games,
and winning tournaments with much less experience than in the past.

(And judging from the recent 60 Minutes piece on him, despite claims of
some natural gift, I think that #1 Carlsen is another example of that.)

I still agree with tournament prizes favouring the open section however.
Tournaments should always reward excellence.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

OK, I think I found it, but I guess I cannot reply to it.

Hi Aris:

Not sure whether you found the CFC " News " Forum ( Discussion Board ), or the " Latest News " section on the Homepage of the CFC Website.

In either case you can reply. Look again.

If you have questions, I'll try to help you find the response process.

Bob A

[Mikhail Egorov]

Re: FIDE level chess in Canada

Well, I hope the "us" is really just you. I was hoping to convey just the opposite message.

Hope is nice, but this is the reality. We are not leaving in a ‘hopeland’. ;)

In order to set things in the right directions, someone has to do something about and not continue keep posting message about hope.