COVID-19 ... how we cope :)

[Peter McKillop]

Hi Peter:

Would you agree to us moving our two posts to the Human Self-Government thread?

Bob A

I don't see a thread with that name, Bob. Would you please clarify?

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Peter:

Would you agree to us moving our two posts to the Human Self-Government thread?

Bob A

[Bob Armstrong]

A Sustainable Earth: A Collection of Villages

Peter McKillop - Post # 3376 - 23/9/17

1. "If I'm understanding what it is you're proposing, I think it's unworkable and undesirable."

Response

Peter, you understand perfectly what I am proposing! I hope to convince you that it is both "workable" and "desirable"!

2. "If you have (tens of) thousands of self-governing villages, how would you ever deal efficiently with all of the disparities of geography and economic potential?"

Response

a. Geographic Differences

There is no doubt that geography showers certain benefits on the residents. For example, if you are a village on the Mediterranean Sea, there are economic advantages to having a Port. Are there any advantages to being a village in the middle of the Sahara Desert? Dry Air may be one from the health point of view of some people.

But your point is totally sound.

The goal of the "Sustainable Earth Project" is that through "cooperation", and "altruism", villages will work hard not to "win", but to help other villages to be 'Sustainable", even if that may mean some inequality of trade. This new paradigm works only if ALL villages are "sustainable". And this may require that some villages are helped in some way by others (Sort of like Canadian Federal-Provincial transfer payments). The goal is that each village is unique and has something to offer, that will keep the residents happy to be a resident in their village. We cannot afford to have villages that just don't work.

b. Economic Potential Differences

Again disparity causes problems........yes it is wonderful that some villages will have much greater economic potential than others. And we want to exploit this to the maximum (Within the rules of sustainability). But it is not "us for ourselves" in the Sustainable Earth.....it is we (All Villages) must achieve some decent local civic quality of life....so there is going to have to be "bartering", and it may have to be "Subsidy Bartering".........one village can trade something the other needs, for what it needs, despite the disparity of value of what is being "traded".

This is truly a sticky wicket, as Peter points out.

Dilip has proposed thinking in terms of "regions of circles". So any village has a "circle of villages" around its borders. The most natural dynamic economically is for the village, and those in its first concentric circle, to enter into bi-lateral, and multi-lateral arrangements, so that all get what they need, and can accomplish tasks important to all, efficiently.

3. "How would you deal with funding/building the physical/legal infrastructure needed to support inter-village dealings like trade?"

Response

One could consider regional transportation as an "infrastructure" problem for a village to solve. This seems most amenable to cooperation - a village coalition to set up a regional transport authority for all of them in the first circle.

This is not so simple though..........we have circles overlaying circles in this paradigm.......But I believe that villages will be able to negotiate a workable, and desirable, solution to mass transit, where there is going to be decent service for all the residents of all villages in the "Coalition".

4. "How, for example, would you deal with poverty-stricken villages that have no prospects for improving themselves because all of their scarce resources are used up by their subsistence-level existence?"

Response

I think that the only partial, and substantial, solution to this is "Transfer Payments" to the "less sustainable on their own" villages. It may also be that some unsustainable villages will simply have to join with one or more bordering villages to achieve at least some basic level of sustainability, which then can be subsidized.

Invitation

Let the free-for-all now begin!

Bob A (I really do think this is NOT about COVID-19, and CAN be discussed in the CT Human Self-Government thread, where this conversation belongs.)

[Dilip Panjwani]

The Smart and Hardworking (Example: Bob A! )

Dilip Panjwani - Post # 3387 - 23/9/19

"did Bob A not hope that moving away from 'villages' with DM may not be possible for the 'smart and hard working'?"

Response

What I said was that the smart and hardworking must receive some type of recognition for their greater contribution to the common good in an Earth composed of Democratic Marxist "Villages". But DM will not allow a society with obscene wage gaps such as exist, of necessity, in all Capitalist nations on the globe. This will not be their reward.

Issue of "Quotes"

Dilip "quoted" me as follows:


Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

Hi Guys:

the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Political Corruption

Bob A (DM'er)

This is not allowed. You cannot "claim" to be quoting me, and then revise my statement in the quote without any notice to the viewer that this is your statement, not mine!!

The Quote was:

"the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Capitalism [Emphasis added]" - Post # 3382 - 23/9/19.

Bob A (DM'er)

Highlighting indicated that it was an altered statement (but I agree that was ambiguous). However, you do also believe that political corruption causes an immense disparity between individuals in Capitalism as well as Marxism, right?

[Bob Armstrong]

The Smart and Hardworking (Example: Bob A! )

Dilip Panjwani - Post # 3387 - 23/9/19

"did Bob A not hope that moving away from 'villages' with DM may not be possible for the 'smart and hard working'?"

Response

What I said was that the smart and hardworking must receive some type of recognition for their greater contribution to the common good in an Earth composed of Democratic Marxist "Villages". But DM will not allow a society with obscene wage gaps such as exist, of necessity, in all Capitalist nations on the globe. This will not be their reward.

Issue of "Quotes"

Dilip "quoted" me as follows:


Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

Hi Guys:

the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Political Corruption

Bob A (DM'er)

This is not allowed. You cannot "claim" to be quoting me, and then revise my statement in the quote without any notice to the viewer that this is your statement, not mine!!

The Quote was:

"the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Capitalism [Emphasis added]" - Post # 3382 - 23/9/19.

Bob A (DM'er)

[Dilip Panjwani]

What is the old saying? Don't mud wrestle with pigs, because the pigs will enjoy it.......

Sorry, I have been trying to avoid just that, but sometimes it becomes difficult when faced with outrageous statements...

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hold on there......is this post acceptable?

My first thought was well...let's check the dictionary,

Sadistic - taking pleasure in the infliction of pain, punishment, or humiliation of others.

Dilip, would you like to withdraw your comments?

Did you not indicate that if the oil companies could pump more and more oil (if Sid's post that more CO2 did not make things worse were true), you would not like it?
And did Bob A not hope that moving away from 'villages' with DM may not be possible for the 'smart and hard working'?
You even explicitly refused to explain your statement, and so I was left with interpreting your statement as best as I could...

[Fred Harvey]

Hold on there......is this post acceptable?

My first thought was well...let's check the dictionary,

Sadistic - taking pleasure in the infliction of pain, punishment, or humiliation of others.

Dilip, would you like to withdraw your comments?

What is the old saying? Don't mud wrestle with pigs, because the pigs will enjoy it.......

[Bob Gillanders]

It seems that Bob A is hoping (in his response to my post #3375) that 'the hard and smart working' get stuck in 'villages' adopting DM because of size limits elsewhere... just like Bob G's objection to Sid's post (beyond a certain limit, CO2 does not trap much heat) was that it would mean the oil companies could pump a lot more! Would someone please find an explanation that these Bobs have not become sadistic (I would hate it if this was true)?

Hold on there......is this post acceptable?

My first thought was well...let's check the dictionary,

Sadistic - taking pleasure in the infliction of pain, punishment, or humiliation of others.

Dilip, would you like to withdraw your comments?

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Guys:


Bob A (DM'er)

P.S. likely this conversation should be in the Human Self-Government thread, no?

NO! As even a silent observer Fred Harvey has pointed out, the 'rules' in that thread are ridiculous...

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Guys:

the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Political Corruption

Bob A (DM'er)

In DM, there will be more politics (with people trying to mind other people's business), and so more corruption and more inequality than in other systems. In all Marxist countries, as History corroborates, the vast majority are very poor, but some do become very rich by licking the arses of those with various degrees of power over others (not by hard and smart work, the rewards from which will immediately get stolen away by legal theft which you are so fond of...)

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Guys:

It is my view that there always will be some inequality.......some are simply more adaptable than others (Darwin - survival of the most adaptable).

And ..... yes......DM's policy is to try to move towards greater equality (Total equality will not be possible, as Neil opines).

But the "main" DM goal is to progressively close the current obscene wage gap, inevitably the result of Capitalism. How much the gap can be narrowed will be seen in the implementation of DM and how the local community concretizes it for itself.

Bob A (DM'er)

P.S. I think we are straying here from COVID-19..........likely this conversation should be in the Human Self-Government thread, no?

[Dilip Panjwani]

I think folks like Bob A. want equality. Force something that is not natural.

....

Much love,
n.

Right. But even in Marxism, 'equality' is elusive, because when everyone tries to work less and play more, the crooks succeed and the honest ones lose badly...

[Neil Frarey]

It seems that Bob A is hoping (in his response to my post #3375) that 'the hard and smart working' get stuck in 'villages' adopting DM because of size limits elsewhere... just like Bob G's objection to Sid's post (beyond a certain limit, CO2 does not trap much heat) was that it would mean the oil companies could pump a lot more! Would someone please find an explanation that these Bobs have not become sadistic (I would hate it if this was true)?

I think folks like Bob A. want equality. Force something that is not natural.

....

Much love,
n.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Dilip:

People would be free to move, but there likely would have to be a limit to the size of a local political unit........otherwise we would again get metropolises.

And it a local political unit was so bad it was losing population, then it likely would be forced to solve whatever the problem was! That seems a good dynamic.

Bob A (As Participant)

It seems that Bob A is hoping (in his response to my post #3375) that 'the hard and smart working' get stuck in 'villages' adopting DM because of size limits elsewhere... just like Bob G's objection to Sid's post (beyond a certain limit, CO2 does not trap much heat) was that it would mean the oil companies could pump a lot more! Would someone please find an explanation that these Bobs have not become sadistic (I would hate it if this was true)?