COVID-19 ... how we cope :)

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Peter:

Yup........love discussing issues in philosophy, theology and politics.

I consider this one sociology - human group living.

I personally am very leery of forcing adults to get a vaccine shot (Though we do it with children re serious children's diseases). But you likely saw my post that Italy is considering a vaccine mandate for Italian's over 50 y.o.!!

But AV's are a danger to society health. So they will be restricted from being mega-spreaders. These restrictions will only increase as long as the AV's don't establish herd immunity among themselves.

One out of every 2 current Omicron 'hospitalizations" are AV's. Yes elective surgeries are being postponed....the health powers that be must determine relative risk (I wouldn't want to be charged with doing it). And the hospital is having great difficulty managing serious non-COVID-19 cases.

So at the moment, I expect more, and more restrictive, regulation of the unvaccinated. I am in favour of this depending on the spread of the virus.......the restrictions do have to be proportional to the possible risk, and damage.

You will hear me when I think state regulation is "Over-reaching".

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Bob Armstrong]

[Bob Armstrong]

COVID-19 & Human Health (Physical)

The Americas - Province of Quebec, Canada

Stronger action, more vaccinations urged as Quebec hospitalizations surge

https://montrealgazette.com/news/que...G_HeadlineNews

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Sid Belzberg]

https://factnest.com/activism/rcmp-o...vid-19-letter/

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Sid:

Thanks for the link above: "I refuse to tell them if I have submitted to their “vaccine” edict."

It is quite detailed and clear re the questioning of modern "vaccine" technology.

I want to think about the death stats comparisons......something there is suspect to me.......but until I find out why I think that, I'll accept the stats presented.

I'll have to think on this one a bit more now.

I have posted it on my Fb site: The REAL News (https://www.facebook.com/bob.armstrong.9235)

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Kerry Liles]

Meanwhile, Quebec is mulling over the idea of charging unvaccinated people extra (taxes?) for health care:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-1.6311054

This might give UV folks the same status as smokers, drinkers, vehicle owners, petrol purchasers etc.
- they are all taxed extra because they can (the infrastructure is already there to support taxes).

[Frank Dixon]

I've been following some highly concerning data, the general direction of which is probably known to many who are following the pandemic. I hadn't realized the scope of the disparity until I examined it in detail.

The COVID death rate, by Ontario Health Region, varies enormously, across the province. Here are the four best and four worst regions.

BEST if you are a patient with COVID (data of Sunday, Jan. 9, 2022, from Ontario government websites):
Kingston, Frontenac, Lennox, and Addington (north and west of city, covers about 250,000 residents): 7,214 cases, 33 deaths, for an approx. death rate of 0.33 per cent;
Next best is North Bay / Parry Sound: 1,950 cases, 9 deaths, D.R. approx. 0.46 per cent;
Next best is Hastings / Prince Edward C. (just west of Kingston): 4,337 cases, 21 deaths, D.R. approx. 0.48 per cent;
Next best is Northwest (Kenora, Dryden): 2,159 cases, 11 deaths, D.R. approx. 0.54 per cent;

WORST if you are a patient with COVID (again, data of Sunday, Jan. 9, 2022, from the same sites):
Niagara region: 22,925 cases, 428 deaths, D.R. approx. 1.87 per cent;
Next worst is Huron / Perth Country: 4,123 cases, 75 deaths, D.R. approx. 1.82 per cent;
Next worst is Windsor / Essex: 27,827 cases, 504 deaths, D.R. approx. 1.81 per cent;
Next worst is Toronto: 215,744 cases, 3,447 deaths, D.R. approx. 1.60 per cent.

The disparity is enormous, a factor approaching 6 to 1, between best and worst.

Contributing factors such as urbanization level, wealth level, health care resources, nearness to U.S. border, all seem to come into play.

I also think there is a community component. Speaking for Kingston as a long time resident, the community buy-in on anti-COVID spread has been excellent, with very high vaccination levels, and right now the booster shot percentage is at 50 per cent. Kingston does have health care resources which are comparable to anything in Canada; it is a prosperous region, with the highest post-secondary education level in Canada. It is close to the U.S. border; but not reachable immediately from it; you have to go through another region first; the U.S has had much higher levels of COVID than Canada, and although cross-border travel is much reduced by COVID, some occurs, for work reasons. Kingston is a medium-sized city, of about 150,000 metro, more if you count the out-of-town post-secondary students, who are generally young and healthy.

[Sid Belzberg]

Meanwhile, Quebec is mulling over the idea of charging unvaccinated people extra (taxes?) for health care:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ebec-1.6311054

This might give UV folks the same status as smokers, drinkers, vehicle owners, petrol purchasers etc.
- they are all taxed extra because they can (the infrastructure is already there to support taxes).

https://www.saveusnow.org.uk/covid-v...-proof-lethal/

[Hans Jung]

Poland is the 15th country to reach a 100,000 deaths.

[Aris Marghetis]

grim math from the CBC tonight:

"National data shows that between Dec. 14, 2020, and Dec. 18, 2021, about 80 per cent of people hospitalized and 76 per cent of people who died with COVID-19 were unvaccinated. When looking at the number of hospitalizations by vaccination status, it's important to remember that the number of vaccinated people in Canada is many times higher than the number of unvaccinated people."

[Sid Belzberg]

Hi Sid:

Thanks for the link above: "I refuse to tell them if I have submitted to their “vaccine” edict."

It is quite detailed and clear re the questioning of modern "vaccine" technology.

I want to think about the death stats comparisons......something there is suspect to me.......but until I find out why I think that, I'll accept the stats presented.

I'll have to think on this one a bit more now.

I have posted it on my Fb site: The REAL News (https://www.facebook.com/bob.armstrong.9235)

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

https://rumble.com/embed/vklfaf

[Pargat Perrer]

That number *may* be far from accurate, Bob. Last night, on CBC news, a doctor was interviewed who indicated that, because of Ontario's testing capacity issues, in his opinion the true number of daily new covid cases in Ontario could be in the 50-70,000 range. You're interested in discussing philosophy. Well, here's a real-life ethical issue for you: should unvaccinated people with covid be treated differently than people who are fully vaccinated?; e.g. how would you feel if your right hip couldn't bear any weight, and you were in constant pain, but your hip-replacement surgery was indefinitely deferred primarily because of anti-vaxxers clogging up our hospitals? What are the ethical issues here? Should the anti-vaxxers be told to go to QAnon Memorial Hospital where they can be under the care of Dr. Foxnews? How about the ethical issues relating to anti-vaxxers (whoops!! I almost typed 'assholes' there) harassing public health workers and officials?

I wouldn't be too hasty to suggest more stringent treatment of the unvaxxed and going so far as to suggest they are assholes for being anti-mRNA vaccines.

There is a > 0 possibility that those getting mRNA vaccines now, i.e. 85% of the population, will suffer some sort of debilitating or fatal issue related to that vaccine in the not so distant future.

Ok, so this scenario is not likely. Neither was the sinking of the Titanic. But life happens and constantly surprises us, and this is something that keeps me up at night. I am seeing a sense of complacency among others who are doubly or triply vaxxed, and i hate to think of the horror we might experience in the future given that we just DON'T KNOW anything.

"Ah, Peter McKillop, yeah i remember him, he almost called us all assholes. Well, i know it's 120 degrees out here due to climate change and there's no shade, but he'll have to stay out here in the hospital parking lot until there's a guy with a hacksaw ready to work on him."

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Sid:

Your link: https://rumble.com/embed/vklfaf

Appears very well-researched re global capitalism. I will not comment on the vaccination issue.

I have posted it to my Fb site, Democratic Marxism - Global: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064839518717
(For transparency purposes - the posting has a rider that the Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI) does not endorse any anti-vaccine positions). It

was then shared to the Fb DM Discussion Group, Democratic Marxist Global Forum (DMGF). From there it went to my personal Fb account (The REAL News).

Thanks

~ Bob A (T-S/P)

[Peter McKillop]

I wouldn't be too hasty to suggest more stringent treatment of the unvaxxed and going so far as to suggest they are assholes for being anti-mRNA vaccines.

I'm guilty of not being specfic enough. 'Anti-vaxxer', for many people, has come to be a pejorative term but I should have noted that there is a wide range of anti-vaxxers: from those who have legitimate medical or religious issues to the 'freedumb' riders at the other end who believe that their so-called rights supersede their moral obligation to be responsible members of society. I'm talking about the people who decline to be vaccinated on specious (being polite here) grounds, who think it's their right to not follow public health guidelines like mask-wearing and social-distancing, who think it's their right to verbally abuse retail (etc.) workers when they are asked to wear a mask, who think it's their right to picket and vandalize the homes of public officials (google Dr. Mustafa Hirji, Niagara Public Health), who think it's their right to spew venom publicly at those with different opinions. These are the people I'm talking about and imo they truly are assholes in the worst sense of the word.

There is a > 0 possibility that those getting mRNA vaccines now, i.e. 85% of the population, will suffer some sort of debilitating or fatal issue related to that vaccine in the not so distant future.

I agree and this point has been raised by Sid many times over the past year or so. We all have to make our own risk vs benefit decisions. Hopefully we can do so intelligently without feeling the need to be a burden to others.

My post asked Bob A. if he was interested in discussing a real-life ethical situation and I should have exercised more care in defining my terms. That's all.

I don't understand your parking lot scenario.

[Bob Gillanders]

Latest update from Ontario this morning:

Persons in ICU.
unvaccinated 157
partially or fully vaccinated 186

if we say 80% are vaccinated, then vaccinated population is 4 times larger than unvaccinated (80% vs 20%)

So if vaccines have no effect, then I would expect there to be 4 times more vaccinated people in ICU.

Unvaccinated 157 x 4 = 628, versus Vaccinated 186.

Conclusion: my booster shot today will help keep me out of the ICU.